In a message dated 8/23/2004 12:06:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: As a matter of fact, I've just started reading _Beyond Belief_ by Elaine Pagels. Interesting book. Has anyone else read her [books or interviews]? --- Not me (so far). The expression 'beyond belief' (a kind of cliche) I took from an essay by Tufts philosopher Daniel Dennett ('Beyond belief') in A. Woodfield, Thought and Object. As I recall, Dennett is interested in the _basis_ of 'belief' (_any_ belief, not just religious) and comes up with something like Stephen Stich's "sub-doxastic states". I thought the phrase 'beyond belief' was commoner than it was. The OED quotes are not that many, or colloquial (below). There is in fact just _one_ quote, and the expression is "_almost_ beyond belief", which is (hardly) 'beyond belief (and the subject his 'spectacles' -- the Pope's, one supposes). Cheers, JL 'beyond' -- with noun expressing a state of mind, as belief: not within the range of, not according to, past, surpassing. 1701 W. WOTTON Hist. Rome 285 His Spectacles were almost beyond belief. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html