[lit-ideas] Re: Aren't you glad you no longer have a Hitler problem?

Hitler's attacks on Poland and USSR were both
explained as pre-emptive attacks.

O.K.


--- Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Ring any bells?  Nice try Simon: trying to find a
> parallel between Hitler
> and Bush rather than dealing with the obvious
> parallels.  But you are quite
> wrong.  Hitler never argued that they were under
> attack - or rather not the
> sort of attack you imagine.  In 1936 on May 1 "once
> an international day of
> celebration of labouring people, now redubbed
> 'National Labour Day' - he
> posed the rhetorical question: 'I ask myself,' he
> declared, 'who are then
> these elements  who wish to have no rest, no peace,
> and no understanding,
> who must continually agitate and sow mistrust?  Who
> are they actually?'
> Immediately picking up the implication, the crowd
> bayed: 'The Jews.'  Hitler
> began again: 'I know . . . ,' and was interrupted by
> cheering that lasted
> for several minutes. . . ."
> 
>  
> 
> Hitler never argued that Germany was under attack
> other than by the Jews.
> In regard to external nations, he wanted Germany to
> be strong so it could
> gain its needed living room.
> 
>  
> 
> Lawrence
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Simon Ward
> Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 6:53 AM
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Aren't you glad you no
> longer have a Hitler
> problem?
> 
>  
> 
> I'm not so sure that Lawrence is applying the right
> similarities. 
> 
>  
> 
> Hitler advocated a new reich. To achieve it he had
> to do two things. Reduce
> and eradicate the democratic process in Germany,
> whilst also persuading the
> German populous that they were under attack. 
> 
>  
> 
> Ring any bells?
> 
>  
> 
> Simon
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
> From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> 
> Helm 
> 
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> 
> Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 2:46 PM
> 
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Aren't you glad you no
> longer have a Hitler
> problem?
> 
>  
> 
> Very good Omar.  I wondered what you would do to
> turn the tables.  Because
> Eric and I recognize the Islamist threat and oppose
> it, this grants us no
> bone fides when transported back to the 1930s.  It
> shows that we are warlike
> and likely to support any war for any reason.  I
> transported us back to the
> U.S., our own nation, but you transport us to
> Germany and make us Germans
> and have us support Hitler.  Very clever.  But is
> not what you have argued
> consistent with what Neville Chamberlain did?   He
> assumed that any sort of
> war should be avoided.  Peace should be obtained "at
> any price."   There is
> no difference between fighting for the U.S. against
> Fascism and fighting for
> Hitler for Fascism.  War is war and peace is peace. 
> We should seek peace at
> any price.
> 
>  
> 
> There are, after all, parallels between the 30s and
> now.  Islamism is
> fascistic in nature as the Lebanese scholar Youssef
> M Choueiri argues in his
> Islamic Fundamentalism.  That is why Islamists and
> Saddam Hussein could
> declare common cause so often.  They wanted the same
> sorts of things.  They
> had the same enemies.  Hitler, the Japanese,
> Mussolini, Quisling, and others
> declared common cause in the 30s.  And the Nazis
> recognized that
> American-style democracy was anathema to their
> cause; just as Islamists and
> Islamist sympathizers recognize that very same thing
> today.  So they argue
> that their murderous excesses are to be excused
> whereas our attempts to
> combat them are to be condemned.  They are being
> defensive when they blow up
> innocent women and children.  We are being offensive
> when we bomb Islamists
> and some innocents die in the process.  They are
> good.  We are evil.
> 
>  
> 
> And I notice no Lit-Idea protests, at least not so
> far: no one else saying,
> "I would have been in the minority back then.  I
> would have seen the danger
> of Hitler and fascism and opposed them."   Just Omar
> saying that since Eric
> and I oppose Islamism and an Islamic fascistic
> dictator we would have
> supported Hitler back in the 30s.  
> 
>  
> 
> Lawrence
> 
>  
> 
> 


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