Hitler's attacks on Poland and USSR were both explained as pre-emptive attacks. O.K. --- Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Ring any bells? Nice try Simon: trying to find a > parallel between Hitler > and Bush rather than dealing with the obvious > parallels. But you are quite > wrong. Hitler never argued that they were under > attack - or rather not the > sort of attack you imagine. In 1936 on May 1 "once > an international day of > celebration of labouring people, now redubbed > 'National Labour Day' - he > posed the rhetorical question: 'I ask myself,' he > declared, 'who are then > these elements who wish to have no rest, no peace, > and no understanding, > who must continually agitate and sow mistrust? Who > are they actually?' > Immediately picking up the implication, the crowd > bayed: 'The Jews.' Hitler > began again: 'I know . . . ,' and was interrupted by > cheering that lasted > for several minutes. . . ." > > > > Hitler never argued that Germany was under attack > other than by the Jews. > In regard to external nations, he wanted Germany to > be strong so it could > gain its needed living room. > > > > Lawrence > > > > _____ > > From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On Behalf Of Simon Ward > Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 6:53 AM > To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Aren't you glad you no > longer have a Hitler > problem? > > > > I'm not so sure that Lawrence is applying the right > similarities. > > > > Hitler advocated a new reich. To achieve it he had > to do two things. Reduce > and eradicate the democratic process in Germany, > whilst also persuading the > German populous that they were under attack. > > > > Ring any bells? > > > > Simon > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > Helm > > To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 2:46 PM > > Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Aren't you glad you no > longer have a Hitler > problem? > > > > Very good Omar. I wondered what you would do to > turn the tables. Because > Eric and I recognize the Islamist threat and oppose > it, this grants us no > bone fides when transported back to the 1930s. It > shows that we are warlike > and likely to support any war for any reason. I > transported us back to the > U.S., our own nation, but you transport us to > Germany and make us Germans > and have us support Hitler. Very clever. But is > not what you have argued > consistent with what Neville Chamberlain did? He > assumed that any sort of > war should be avoided. Peace should be obtained "at > any price." There is > no difference between fighting for the U.S. against > Fascism and fighting for > Hitler for Fascism. War is war and peace is peace. > We should seek peace at > any price. > > > > There are, after all, parallels between the 30s and > now. Islamism is > fascistic in nature as the Lebanese scholar Youssef > M Choueiri argues in his > Islamic Fundamentalism. That is why Islamists and > Saddam Hussein could > declare common cause so often. They wanted the same > sorts of things. They > had the same enemies. Hitler, the Japanese, > Mussolini, Quisling, and others > declared common cause in the 30s. And the Nazis > recognized that > American-style democracy was anathema to their > cause; just as Islamists and > Islamist sympathizers recognize that very same thing > today. So they argue > that their murderous excesses are to be excused > whereas our attempts to > combat them are to be condemned. They are being > defensive when they blow up > innocent women and children. We are being offensive > when we bomb Islamists > and some innocents die in the process. They are > good. We are evil. > > > > And I notice no Lit-Idea protests, at least not so > far: no one else saying, > "I would have been in the minority back then. I > would have seen the danger > of Hitler and fascism and opposed them." Just Omar > saying that since Eric > and I oppose Islamism and an Islamic fascistic > dictator we would have > supported Hitler back in the 30s. > > > > Lawrence > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html