[jhb] Re: IVAO Changes for pilot ratings
- From: "Paul Reynolds" <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 20:33:47 +0100
I don’t suppose anyone knows whether Northern Rock’s old management team enjoy
flight-simming do they? Either that or they’re now liaising between FIA/FOTA!
I’ve always been bemused by all these titles that fly around IVAO/VATSim. Do I
want to apply for the job of VP-T&B (Tea and Buscuit) etc.
Whenever things reach this level there’s often a degree of “I’ve got the power
so I’m going to wield it” creeps in even though it may not need ‘wielding’.
It’s akin to much government (especially local government) thinking.
So, from now on, it’s Rich Tea on Mondays, Custard Creams on Tues, Bourbons on
Weds, Jammie Dodgers on Thurs, Chocolate Digestives on Friday, Ginger Nuts on
Saturdays and Hob Nobs on Sundays. Shortbread will be available on bank
holidays and special occasions. Garibaldi’s will NOT be tolerated, no dead fly
biscuits on my watch! Tea will be available with both milk and sugar from
Mondays onwards until the additive supplies run out – providing the teabag
itself stays intact. If you want coffee, try an American airline. As for
Frappa-mocha-knickerbocker-whatever it’s called, I ain’t got the time to learn
recipes just to make a bleedin’ drink. If you can’t stick it in a mug and pour
on boiling water you ain’t getting it!<g>
Seriously though, as for the actual name changes, I can understand the desire
to have a rank that reflects the pilot/controllers skill level but, as has been
argued to death, IVAO/VATSim are not real world environs and should not be
treated so. I personally would like to see parallel rankings, an examined
route and time served showing on the data tag. That way we get to know whether
a Captain has passed the basic IVAO exam but only ever flown the minimum hours
or the S3 has several hundred hours logged.
Paul
From: jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of F
FISHER
Sent: 08 July 2009 22:06
To: jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb] Re: IVAO Changes for pilot ratings
I've just read the pdf and am slightly baffled; well, about the pilot side
anyway.
Gerry
I think you are not the only one. It is not even reflecting the real world, and
that would just about kill IVAO.
Even Vatsim would find it a big pill to swallow.
After all, it is only a game!!!
Frank F
_____
From: Gerry Winskill <gwinsk@xxxxxxx>
To: jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, 8 July, 2009 9:29:27 PM
Subject: [jhb] Re: IVAO Changes for pilot ratings
I've just read the pdf and am slightly baffled; well, about the pilot side
anyway.
Having taken only the first, and relatively painless, exam I am rated C. Under
the new system that equates to Recreational Pilot. That's one exam below a VFR
pilot and two below an IFR rated pilot. My Walter Mitty traits are reasonably
under control and I fly only one of two Tobago variants, for VFR, and one of
two Bizjets for IFR trips. As someone pointed out on the IVAO forum, there are
a lot of us at that level out there. Logically I should have to stop flying the
two Bizjets on line, until I had passed at least the IFR Pilot exam. Since I
have no intention of taking the exams, that would see me, with great
reluctance, leaving IVAO.
However, the publication says users don't need to take exams and achieve higher
ratings. So, that means that I, and others in my position, may appear as
Recreational Pilots, flying IFR and, if the fancy takes us, flying heavy metal
like the A380.
The rather lame excuse for the changes to something that ain't broke is that it
enhances realism. It would if the proposed pilot system changes were to be
compulsary. However IVAO, realising that's a great way of decimating their
membership, have stopped at the brink. So it isn't enhancing realism at all,
just making the system more contentious and a proportion of the pilot base more
suspicious.
I can quite see the point of preventing ill prepared pilots, or cowboys, from
spoiling the enjoyment of others but I'm sure there are better ways of tackling
this.
Gerry Winskill
Fossil wrote:
> When starting a VA it is all too easy to fall into the trap of over
> regulating. Many try to emulate real world airlines and they think they can
> do this by applying real world rules. IVAO and VATSIM are falling into the
> same trap for ATC too but more of this in a minute.
>
> Some VA's reproduce the actual schedules of the airlines they emulate. The
> trouble here is that in the real world the senior pilots get to pick the
> best routes and the newcomers are left with the dross (when Tony moved to BA
> he got stuck with Heathrow-Detroit for years). If you try that in a VA your
> newcomers aren't going to be happy - but I've seen some try this. Some VA's
> try a proper command structure but again it doesn't work because in real
> life it takes decades to work your way up the ranks. That's assuming the
> airline doesn't go bust and you end up at the bottom of the ladder again.
>
> A VA should be fun. Trying to make it real turns it into a career - and not
> a very realistic one at that. Even with regulations, using FS Passengers and
> other add-ons you still cannot emulate the real world to any degree of
> accuracy. You don't get stuck on stand waiting for a slot time some three
> hours ahead, you don't suffer technical failures that leave you stuck
> overnight in a dismal airport and you aren't forced to fly with a First
> Officer with the wit of a slug. Any VA that thinks they are doing it for
> real is dismally unaware of what real is truly like.
>
> IVAO and VATSIM are falling in the same trap but I am more inclined to
> defend them. They are online ATC services and so try to provide as accurate
> portrayal of this. If you don't want ATC you fly offline or use MP if you
> want company. You join IVAO because you want to have interactive ATC but
> that also implies knowing and operating with some sort of ATC structure. I
> think we all accept this.
>
> What is going wrong is that IVAO and VATSIM try to separate out the good
> controllers and pilots from the bad ones. FRA's are a way of doing this but
> it isn't ideal - personally I don't like them. If you rate an airport as C1
> only then you limit the use of that airport to times when a C1 wants to jump
> in there. I log into EGNS about once a week so it effectively closes the
> airport to ATC for the other six days. The rest of the UK is equally empty
> because we don't have enough C1 rated people to staff the places. I guess it
> comes down to whether pilots would like some ATC even though it may be
> rubbish or no ATC at all.
>
> I would have thought the existing rating system was enough to tell people
> what to expect. If you see an S1 plugged into an airport it automatically
> means he's a newcomer and probably doesn't know what he is doing. Treat with
> caution and you'll probably get some sort of service but nothing brilliant.
> If you see a C3 online you know that capability is much higher - and your
> own capabilities will be expected to be higher too. The only tricky rating
> for ATC is an S3 because he could have been doing the job for years but not
> bothering to take exams - or could be a 25 hour newcomer.
>
> Newcomers will always be on the system and we have to allow for it.
> Restricting them with FRA's isn't the best way. ATC should always expect a
> novice to call them and do daft things - and pilots should always expect to
> encounter a new controller from time to time and allow him some slack (or
> avoid him).
>
> bones
> bones@xxxxxxx
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of Gerry Winskill
> Sent: 08 July 2009 11:21
> To: jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jhb] Re: IVAO Changes for pilot ratings
>
> I'm a bit reassured by a reply on the first link.
>
> The second link asks for my username and password, before I can read the
> thread. Since I've misplaced the notebook in which I writ them, I won't
> bother.
>
> There was an item on Flightsimcom, at the beginning of the week, attacking
> VAs, and Vatsim, for their rules heavy approach. The criticism doesn't apply
> to JHB but I'm concerned that IVAO may be going further down the bureaucratic
> path.
>
> I always have suspicions about outfits that move towards grander titles.
>
> Gerry Winskill
>
> Kev Townsend wrote:
>> A very hot topic - 33 pages in 72 hours
>>
>> <http://gb.forum.ivao.aero/index.php/topic,115055.0/topicseen.html>
>>
>> I think many are concerned that there is a plan in place for introduction of
>> FRA's for pilots online! (as seen by ATC)
>>
>> For very sensible alternatives, just read the responses from Peter Bremer
>>
>>
>> If you dont want to trawl through the thread just read the explanation
> here
> <http://forum.ivao.aero/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=115100.0;attach=6203
>>
>>
>>
>> best wishes
>>
>> Kev
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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