[jhb] Re: IVAO Changes for pilot ratings
- From: "Fossil" <fossil@xxxxxxx>
- To: <jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:58:25 +0100
Arrggghhh.
Reminds me to do another search online for AR as I've not tried for a while.
bones
bones@xxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Mike Brook
Sent: 09 July 2009 22:44
To: jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb] Re: IVAO Changes for pilot ratings
Should you ever venture to the southwest extremity of the mainland, just north
of the Helston River in Cornwall you will find the dull, dour and boring
village of Contantine. However, at the bottom of the hill that is the main
street is a small 'Spar' minimarket cum Post Office. The store is like
hundreds of others throughout the UK but this has one significant difference.
At the back of the shop is a HUGE (as the yanks would put it) 'Licker Store'.
It is an Aladdin's Cave like no other that I have ever been in, it's the best
kept secret in Cornwall and ranks high on my list of 'Places That MUST Be
Visited Before You Die'.
http://www.whatsonsouthwest.co.uk/article.php?id=6381
Not just whiskies but virtually every other fine spirit from all corners of the
globe are available for purchase. Sadly, they let me down earlier this year
when I went in seeking a bottle of 'Admiral Rodney Rum'. They apparently sold
their last few bottles of that in 2001...
M.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Gerry Winskill
> Sent: 09 July 2009 21:20
> To: jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [jhb] Re: IVAO Changes for pilot ratings
>
> Paul,
>
> It's the biscuit kick that's turned me on, though my needs are meagre.
>
> I just need something dry, very little fat but a slight cheesy
> flavour. The spec emerges from this evening's decision on a significant
> change of direction. Instead of pratting around with wines of
> increasingly dubious origin, or blends of Scotch that are more
> tolerable
> in the presence of dry ginger, I've decided to resume my academic
> studies. This life changing decision was made whilst sampling my
> Fathers' Day Caol Isla and simultaneously poring over that gem from my
> library, "Wallace Milroy's Malt Whisky Almanac".
>
> Tomorrow I set out to locate suitable purveyors of malts; more
> specifically, of Islay malts. I suspect the search may get off to a
> good
> start in Castletown. As well as being the location of our airport and
> being the seat of residence of our Hub Captain, it sports a very
> acceptable wine merchants. Even better, within a few doors is the
> purveyor of the best sausages I've ever tasted and a Health Food shop
> that caters for most of the needs of your average hypochondriacal
> chocaholic.
>
> I may be gone for some time, after which I shall, hopefully, find it
> impossible to fly a straight course without resorting to the autopilok.
>
> Hic
>
> Gerry Winskill
>
>
>
>
> Paul Reynolds wrote:
> > I don’t suppose anyone knows whether Northern Rock’s old management
> team
> > enjoy flight-simming do they? Either that or they’re now liaising
> > between FIA/FOTA!
> >
> >
> >
> > I’ve always been bemused by all these titles that fly around
> > IVAO/VATSim. Do I want to apply for the job of VP-T&B (Tea and
> Buscuit)
> > etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > Whenever things reach this level there’s often a degree of “I’ve got
> the
> > power so I’m going to wield it” creeps in even though it may not need
> > ‘wielding’. It’s akin to much government (especially local
> government)
> > thinking.
> >
> >
> >
> > So, from now on, it’s Rich Tea on Mondays, Custard Creams on Tues,
> > Bourbons on Weds, Jammie Dodgers on Thurs, Chocolate Digestives on
> > Friday, Ginger Nuts on Saturdays and Hob Nobs on Sundays. Shortbread
> > will be available on bank holidays and special occasions. Garibaldi’s
> > will NOT be tolerated, no dead fly biscuits on my watch! Tea will be
> > available with both milk and sugar from Mondays onwards until the
> > additive supplies run out – providing the teabag itself stays intact.
> If
> > you want coffee, try an American airline. As for
> > Frappa-mocha-knickerbocker-whatever it’s called, I ain’t got the time
> to
> > learn recipes just to make a bleedin’ drink. If you can’t stick it
> in a
> > mug and pour on boiling water you ain’t getting it!<g>
> >
> >
> >
> > Seriously though, as for the actual name changes, I can understand
> the
> > desire to have a rank that reflects the pilot/controllers skill level
> > but, as has been argued to death, IVAO/VATSim are not real world
> > environs and should not be treated so. I personally would like to
> see
> > parallel rankings, an examined route and time served showing on the
> data
> > tag. That way we get to know whether a Captain has passed the basic
> > IVAO exam but only ever flown the minimum hours or the S3 has several
> > hundred hours logged.
> >
> >
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> *On
> > Behalf Of *F FISHER
> > *Sent:* 08 July 2009 22:06
> > *To:* jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > *Subject:* [jhb] Re: IVAO Changes for pilot ratings
> >
> >
> >
> > I've just read the pdf and am slightly baffled; well, about the pilot
> > side anyway.
> >
> > Gerry
> >
> >
> >
> > I think you are not the only one. It is not even reflecting the real
> > world, and that would just about kill IVAO.
> >
> > Even Vatsim would find it a big pill to swallow.
> >
> > After all, it is only a game!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > Frank F
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> >
> > *From:* Gerry Winskill <gwinsk@xxxxxxx>
> > *To:* jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, 8 July, 2009 9:29:27 PM
> > *Subject:* [jhb] Re: IVAO Changes for pilot ratings
> >
> > I've just read the pdf and am slightly baffled; well, about the pilot
> > side anyway.
> >
> > Having taken only the first, and relatively painless, exam I am rated
> C.
> > Under the new system that equates to Recreational Pilot. That's one
> exam
> > below a VFR pilot and two below an IFR rated pilot. My Walter Mitty
> > traits are reasonably under control and I fly only one of two Tobago
> > variants, for VFR, and one of two Bizjets for IFR trips. As someone
> > pointed out on the IVAO forum, there are a lot of us at that level
> out
> > there. Logically I should have to stop flying the two Bizjets on
> line,
> > until I had passed at least the IFR Pilot exam. Since I have no
> > intention of taking the exams, that would see me, with great
> reluctance,
> > leaving IVAO.
> >
> > However, the publication says users don't need to take exams and
> achieve
> > higher ratings. So, that means that I, and others in my position, may
> > appear as Recreational Pilots, flying IFR and, if the fancy takes us,
> > flying heavy metal like the A380.
> >
> > The rather lame excuse for the changes to something that ain't broke
> is
> > that it enhances realism. It would if the proposed pilot system
> changes
> > were to be compulsary. However IVAO, realising that's a great way of
> > decimating their membership, have stopped at the brink. So it isn't
> > enhancing realism at all, just making the system more contentious and
> a
> > proportion of the pilot base more suspicious.
> >
> > I can quite see the point of preventing ill prepared pilots, or
> cowboys,
> > from spoiling the enjoyment of others but I'm sure there are better
> ways
> > of tackling this.
> >
> > Gerry Winskill
> >
> > Fossil wrote:
> >> When starting a VA it is all too easy to fall into the trap of over
> >> regulating. Many try to emulate real world airlines and they think
> > they can
> >> do this by applying real world rules. IVAO and VATSIM are falling
> into the
> >> same trap for ATC too but more of this in a minute.
> >>
> >> Some VA's reproduce the actual schedules of the airlines they
> emulate. The
> >> trouble here is that in the real world the senior pilots get to
> pick the
> >> best routes and the newcomers are left with the dross (when Tony
> moved
> > to BA
> >> he got stuck with Heathrow-Detroit for years). If you try that in a
> VA
> > your
> >> newcomers aren't going to be happy - but I've seen some try this.
> Some
> > VA's
> >> try a proper command structure but again it doesn't work because in
> real
> >> life it takes decades to work your way up the ranks. That's
> assuming the
> >> airline doesn't go bust and you end up at the bottom of the ladder
> again.
> >>
> >> A VA should be fun. Trying to make it real turns it into a career -
> > and not
> >> a very realistic one at that. Even with regulations, using FS
> > Passengers and
> >> other add-ons you still cannot emulate the real world to any degree
> of
> >> accuracy. You don't get stuck on stand waiting for a slot time some
> three
> >> hours ahead, you don't suffer technical failures that leave you
> stuck
> >> overnight in a dismal airport and you aren't forced to fly with a
> First
> >> Officer with the wit of a slug. Any VA that thinks they are doing
> it for
> >> real is dismally unaware of what real is truly like.
> >>
> >> IVAO and VATSIM are falling in the same trap but I am more inclined
> to
> >> defend them. They are online ATC services and so try to provide as
> > accurate
> >> portrayal of this. If you don't want ATC you fly offline or use MP
> if you
> >> want company. You join IVAO because you want to have interactive
> ATC but
> >> that also implies knowing and operating with some sort of ATC
> structure. I
> >> think we all accept this.
> >>
> >> What is going wrong is that IVAO and VATSIM try to separate out the
> good
> >> controllers and pilots from the bad ones. FRA's are a way of doing
> > this but
> >> it isn't ideal - personally I don't like them. If you rate an
> airport
> > as C1
> >> only then you limit the use of that airport to times when a C1
> wants
> > to jump
> >> in there. I log into EGNS about once a week so it effectively
> closes the
> >> airport to ATC for the other six days. The rest of the UK is
> equally empty
> >> because we don't have enough C1 rated people to staff the places. I
> > guess it
> >> comes down to whether pilots would like some ATC even though it may
> be
> >> rubbish or no ATC at all.
> >>
> >> I would have thought the existing rating system was enough to tell
> people
> >> what to expect. If you see an S1 plugged into an airport it
> automatically
> >> means he's a newcomer and probably doesn't know what he is doing.
> > Treat with
> >> caution and you'll probably get some sort of service but nothing
> > brilliant.
> >> If you see a C3 online you know that capability is much higher -
> and your
> >> own capabilities will be expected to be higher too. The only tricky
> rating
> >> for ATC is an S3 because he could have been doing the job for years
> > but not
> >> bothering to take exams - or could be a 25 hour newcomer.
> >>
> >> Newcomers will always be on the system and we have to allow for it.
> >> Restricting them with FRA's isn't the best way. ATC should always
> expect a
> >> novice to call them and do daft things - and pilots should always
> > expect to
> >> encounter a new controller from time to time and allow him some
> slack (or
> >> avoid him).
> >>
> >> bones
> >> bones@xxxxxxx <mailto:bones@xxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > [mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]
> On
> > Behalf
> >> Of Gerry Winskill
> >> Sent: 08 July 2009 11:21
> >> To: jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Subject: [jhb] Re: IVAO Changes for pilot ratings
> >>
> >> I'm a bit reassured by a reply on the first link.
> >>
> >> The second link asks for my username and password, before I can
> read
> > the thread. Since I've misplaced the notebook in which I writ them, I
> > won't bother.
> >>
> >> There was an item on Flightsimcom, at the beginning of the week,
> > attacking VAs, and Vatsim, for their rules heavy approach. The
> criticism
> > doesn't apply to JHB but I'm concerned that IVAO may be going further
> > down the bureaucratic path.
> >>
> >> I always have suspicions about outfits that move towards grander
> titles.
> >>
> >> Gerry Winskill
> >>
> >> Kev Townsend wrote:
> >> > A very hot topic - 33 pages in 72 hours
> >> >
> >> >
> <http://gb.forum.ivao.aero/index.php/topic,115055.0/topicseen.html>
> >> >
> >> > I think many are concerned that there is a plan in place for
> > introduction of FRA's for pilots online! (as seen by ATC)
> >> >
> >> > For very sensible alternatives, just read the responses from Peter
> Bremer
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > If you dont want to trawl through the thread just read the
> explanation
> >> here
> >>
> >
> <http://forum.ivao.aero/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=115100.0;attach
> =6203
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > best wishes
> >> >
> >> > Kev
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
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