[jhb] Re: IVAO Changes for pilot ratings

  • From: Gerry Winskill <gwinsk@xxxxxxx>
  • To: jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 22:29:09 +0100

No point in having access to local knowledge if we don't take advantage of it. Having been disappointed once, what hours does the liquid one keep?
BTW, we've been discussing the electronic Tom Tom but the real one hasn't chipped in... 



Gerry Winskill

Fossil wrote:

The three best shops in Castletown and all next door to one another.. I paid 
each a visit just hours ago..

bones
bones@xxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
From: jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
Gerry Winskill
Sent: 09 July 2009 21:20
To: jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb] Re: IVAO Changes for pilot ratings

Paul,

It's the biscuit kick that's turned me on, though my needs are meagre.
I just need something dry, very little fat but a slight cheesy flavour. The spec emerges from this evening's decision on a significant change of direction. Instead of pratting around with wines of increasingly dubious origin, or blends of Scotch that are more tolerable in the presence of dry ginger, I've decided to resume my academic studies. This life changing decision was made whilst sampling my Fathers' Day Caol Isla and simultaneously poring over that gem from my library, "Wallace Milroy's Malt Whisky Almanac".
Tomorrow I set out to locate suitable purveyors of malts; more specifically, of Islay malts. I suspect the search may get off to a good start in Castletown. As well as being the location of our airport and being the seat of residence of our Hub Captain, it sports a very acceptable wine merchants. Even better, within a few doors is the purveyor of the best sausages I've ever tasted and a Health Food shop that caters for most of the needs of your average hypochondriacal chocaholic.
I may be gone for some time, after which I shall, hopefully, find it impossible to fly a straight course without resorting to the autopilok. 

Hic

Gerry Winskill




Paul Reynolds wrote:
I don’t suppose anyone knows whether Northern Rock’s old management team enjoy flight-simming do they? Either that or they’re now liaising between FIA/FOTA!
I’ve always been bemused by all these titles that fly around IVAO/VATSim. Do I want to apply for the job of VP-T&B (Tea and Buscuit) etc. Whenever things reach this level there’s often a degree of “I’ve got the power so I’m going to wield it” creeps in even though it may not need ‘wielding’. It’s akin to much government (especially local government) thinking.
So, from now on, it’s Rich Tea on Mondays, Custard Creams on Tues, Bourbons on Weds, Jammie Dodgers on Thurs, Chocolate Digestives on Friday, Ginger Nuts on Saturdays and Hob Nobs on Sundays. Shortbread will be available on bank holidays and special occasions. Garibaldi’s will NOT be tolerated, no dead fly biscuits on my watch! Tea will be available with both milk and sugar from Mondays onwards until the additive supplies run out – providing the teabag itself stays intact. If you want coffee, try an American airline. As for Frappa-mocha-knickerbocker-whatever it’s called, I ain’t got the time to learn recipes just to make a bleedin’ drink. If you can’t stick it in a mug and pour on boiling water you ain’t getting it!<g>
Seriously though, as for the actual name changes, I can understand the desire to have a rank that reflects the pilot/controllers skill level but, as has been argued to death, IVAO/VATSim are not real world environs and should not be treated so. I personally would like to see parallel rankings, an examined route and time served showing on the data tag. That way we get to know whether a Captain has passed the basic IVAO exam but only ever flown the minimum hours or the S3 has several hundred hours logged. 


Paul
*From:* jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *F FISHER 
*Sent:* 08 July 2009 22:06
*To:* jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [jhb] Re: IVAO Changes for pilot ratings
I've just read the pdf and am slightly baffled; well, about the pilot side anyway. 

Gerry
I think you are not the only one. It is not even reflecting the real world, and that would just about kill IVAO. 

Even Vatsim would find it a big pill to swallow.

After all, it is only a game!!!


Frank F


------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:* Gerry Winskill <gwinsk@xxxxxxx>
*To:* jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Sent:* Wednesday, 8 July, 2009 9:29:27 PM
*Subject:* [jhb] Re: IVAO Changes for pilot ratings
I've just read the pdf and am slightly baffled; well, about the pilot side anyway.
Having taken only the first, and relatively painless, exam I am rated C. Under the new system that equates to Recreational Pilot. That's one exam below a VFR pilot and two below an IFR rated pilot. My Walter Mitty traits are reasonably under control and I fly only one of two Tobago variants, for VFR, and one of two Bizjets for IFR trips. As someone pointed out on the IVAO forum, there are a lot of us at that level out there. Logically I should have to stop flying the two Bizjets on line, until I had passed at least the IFR Pilot exam. Since I have no intention of taking the exams, that would see me, with great reluctance, leaving IVAO.
However, the publication says users don't need to take exams and achieve higher ratings. So, that means that I, and others in my position, may appear as Recreational Pilots, flying IFR and, if the fancy takes us, flying heavy metal like the A380.
The rather lame excuse for the changes to something that ain't broke is that it enhances realism. It would if the proposed pilot system changes were to be compulsary. However IVAO, realising that's a great way of decimating their membership, have stopped at the brink. So it isn't enhancing realism at all, just making the system more contentious and a proportion of the pilot base more suspicious.
I can quite see the point of preventing ill prepared pilots, or cowboys, from spoiling the enjoyment of others but I'm sure there are better ways of tackling this. 

Gerry Winskill

Fossil wrote:

 When starting a VA it is all too easy to fall into the trap of over
regulating. Many try to emulate real world airlines and they think 
they can

 do this by applying real world rules. IVAO and VATSIM are falling into the
 same trap for ATC too but more of this in a minute.

 Some VA's reproduce the actual schedules of the airlines they emulate. The
 trouble here is that in the real world the senior pilots get to pick the
best routes and the newcomers are left with the dross (when Tony moved 
to BA
he got stuck with Heathrow-Detroit for years). If you try that in a VA 
your
newcomers aren't going to be happy - but I've seen some try this. Some 
VA's

 try a proper command structure but again it doesn't work because in real
 life it takes decades to work your way up the ranks. That's assuming the
 airline doesn't go bust and you end up at the bottom of the ladder again.
A VA should be fun. Trying to make it real turns it into a career - 
and not
a very realistic one at that. Even with regulations, using FS 
Passengers and

 other add-ons you still cannot emulate the real world to any degree of
 accuracy. You don't get stuck on stand waiting for a slot time some three
 hours ahead, you don't suffer technical failures that leave you stuck
 overnight in a dismal airport and you aren't forced to fly with a First
 Officer with the wit of a slug. Any VA that thinks they are doing it for
 real is dismally unaware of what real is truly like.

 IVAO and VATSIM are falling in the same trap but I am more inclined to
defend them. They are online ATC services and so try to provide as 
accurate

 portrayal of this. If you don't want ATC you fly offline or use MP if you
 want company. You join IVAO because you want to have interactive ATC but
 that also implies knowing and operating with some sort of ATC structure. I
 think we all accept this.

 What is going wrong is that IVAO and VATSIM try to separate out the good
controllers and pilots from the bad ones. FRA's are a way of doing 
this but
it isn't ideal - personally I don't like them. If you rate an airport 
as C1
only then you limit the use of that airport to times when a C1 wants 
to jump

 in there. I log into EGNS about once a week so it effectively closes the
 airport to ATC for the other six days. The rest of the UK is equally empty
because we don't have enough C1 rated people to staff the places. I 
guess it

 comes down to whether pilots would like some ATC even though it may be
 rubbish or no ATC at all.

 I would have thought the existing rating system was enough to tell people
 what to expect. If you see an S1 plugged into an airport it automatically
means he's a newcomer and probably doesn't know what he is doing. 
Treat with
caution and you'll probably get some sort of service but nothing 
brilliant.

 If you see a C3 online you know that capability is much higher - and your
 own capabilities will be expected to be higher too. The only tricky rating
for ATC is an S3 because he could have been doing the job for years 
but not

 bothering to take exams - or could be a 25 hour newcomer.

 Newcomers will always be on the system and we have to allow for it.
 Restricting them with FRA's isn't the best way. ATC should always expect a
novice to call them and do daft things - and pilots should always 
expect to

 encounter a new controller from time to time and allow him some slack (or
 avoid him).

 bones
 bones@xxxxxxx <mailto:bones@xxxxxxx>


 -----Original Message-----
From: jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf 
 Of Gerry Winskill
 Sent: 08 July 2009 11:21
 To: jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 Subject: [jhb] Re: IVAO Changes for pilot ratings

 I'm a bit reassured by a reply on the first link.
The second link asks for my username and password, before I can read
the thread. Since I've misplaced the notebook in which I writ them, I won't bother.
There was an item on Flightsimcom, at the beginning of the week,
attacking VAs, and Vatsim, for their rules heavy approach. The criticism doesn't apply to JHB but I'm concerned that IVAO may be going further down the bureaucratic path. 
 I always have suspicions about outfits that move towards grander titles.

 Gerry Winskill

 Kev Townsend wrote:

A very hot topic - 33 pages in 72 hours

<http://gb.forum.ivao.aero/index.php/topic,115055.0/topicseen.html>
I think many are concerned that there is a plan in place for 
introduction of FRA's for pilots online! (as seen by ATC)

For very sensible alternatives, just read the responses from Peter Bremer


If you dont want to trawl through the thread just read the explanation

 here


<http://forum.ivao.aero/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=115100.0;attach=6203



best wishes

Kev

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