Does anyone know anthing about zoom text products? Devona -------------------------------------------------- From: "Kerri" <shalom75@xxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 2:58 PM To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: screen reader superiority
Hello, all. It is as has previously been mentioned, beneficial to all to have one other screen reader besides Jaws. The sighted folks use two or more graphics programs so why are we any different? It is best not to rely excusively on one.----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 12:54 PM Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally! As for Zdenek's questions about which screen reader is better, I just suggested he try them out for himself. No one screen reader meets everyone's needs. As for Armond's petition idea, I expressed my opinion of the value of such petitions based on past performance. And as for your admonishment, I see now that your name is Gerald, not James; I thought for a minute there that you were the list moderator. Gary King w4wkz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@xxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 2:33 PM Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!Why don't you guys take this discussion off list? If you want to keep bashing FS or discuss alternatives to JAWS, do it elsewhere. Gerald----- Original Message ----- From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 3:15 PM Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!but thee real question is is windoweyes better than jaws? In which areas is it better in which areas is it worse? Zdenek----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:02 PM Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!Zddenek, The other major screen reader is Window-Eyes. If you monitor the GW-Micro list, you will see that users of this screen reader have problems with it as well. As for the free screen readers, if a user's needs are simple, reading email, surfing the net, etc., one of them will probably meet his needs. Otherwise, he will have to pay and pay again to keep up-to-date. As for the FBI, which you have mentioned more than once in your messages, now that they have your email address from reading the JAWS list, they have probably tracked you down already and are closing in on you as you read this. Run! Gary King w4wkz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx----- Original Message ----- From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 1:13 PM Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!can someone finally spelled out thee real alternatives for me, which of them are better than jaws please! I hear on this list that there are real alternatives but nothing specific as to what is bbetter than jaws if you know an alternative superior to jaws just say it so all of us could benefit. For instance the authors of linux distribution vinux admit that the speech software for linux is still more limited tthan jaws is. I don't feel comfortable buying a mac, specially since FBI cqan get a hold of my info and as well as importantly the cost of mac acceeds the cost of upgrade of jaws many times. So any real superior alternatives, or is it just a talk and being fed up with a corporation named freedom scientific? I wonder whether users of other screen readers don't have similar complains about their own software. Many thanks ofr a clear and specific answer to which software is superior to jaws. Zddenek----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy Ingram-Gorban" <Dorothy.ingram-gorban@xxxxxxxxx>To: "org, jfw@freelists. " <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!John it has obviously served you well in its time and may continue ,but it is a wise manufacturer of any product who listens to its customers,and they are the blind world wide, some have never been subsidised but used their savings, some on this list are in residential nursing homes on a fixed income, and still loyal to fs, but if fs fails to listen,now of all times to the concerns of its customer base it will fail in the same manner many famous products have done in the past, for the first time there real choices, and whether or not fs is wise I think will soon be apparent. Regards Dorothy----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Vaughn" <jrvaughn44@xxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 12:35 AM Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally! I concur with your sentiments. I have been using Jaws for over 20 years now and it kept me employed, enjoying life and now enjoying retirement. FS and Jaws are not the be all and end all, but they have to have a product that works for folks. If it is not working for you, move on. Meanwhile, this is a Jaws list to be a positive support to other jaws users. Lets do this or I will move on. John in sunny florida----- Original Message ----- From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 6:13 PM Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!that's my understanding that eloquence is a history, but I am not freedom scientific better check out with them. I did not mean to crriticize the other fellow just asking to be more thoughtful and careful with words. It seems to me that on this list there has become fashinable and perhaps rightly so to critisize jaws but noone suggests better product or am I missing something? Zdenek----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:44 PM Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!Zdenek, I agree that the statement is almost meant to be inflammatory. You wrote: "I believe that they are leaving eloquence instead of focusing on using the realspeak voices..." Just to clarify, did you mean that they are moving away from Eloquence and will instead push to use RealSpeak voices? I'd not be happy with using only RealSpeak for my day-to-day work. Dave----- Original Message ----- From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 07:48 Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally! that's a pretty strong claim to make. In any rate I believe that they are leaving eloquence instead of focusing on using the realspeak voices that you can download for free, so perhaps that may explain the issue. Zdenek----- Original Message ----- From: "Devona" <djasister@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!Did they fix it? -------------------------------------------------- From: "Armond" <armond1980@xxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:19 AM To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!Hi, all, Many of you might find the following email exchange between a friend of mine and Freedom Scientific's Jonathan Mosen shocking or, rather, frustrating. Basically, it describes a Unicode-related bug in newer releases of JAWS 11 which later turned out to be an intentional move on the point of Freedom Scientific to get users to purchase a certain right-to-left language pack from a dealer--at a higher cost--though this is against the spirit of the Unicode feature. Here's my friend's message--note that he himself doesn't have a blog or venue to voice his concerns and isn't interested in pursuing that line of action either for various reasons, so I'm doing that on his behalf and on the behalf of those who have been affected: ------------ Hello Jonathan, Please forgive me for sending you this message. The following bug is so serious that I decided to notify you as I don't know to which FreedomScientific employee it should be sent. This affects the latest JAWS 11 update. As you know, each unicode symbol or character has a value in hex. For instance, the Persian or Arabic character "?" ("Alef") has the following value: U+627. Now JAWS 11 interprets hex values in the form of the correct value minus 1. That is, for instance, the letter "Alef" with the value of U+627 is read is "Yaa hamzeh" which has the hex value of U+626. That's quite strange, but the bug indeed affects all unicode symbols modified in Eloq.sbl! This means that I can't use the Eloquence engine to type or read characters in Persian and Arabic because what I type or whatever the cursor points to will be read as something else by JAWS 11.0.1447. Would you please inform JAWS developers about this bug? I don't want to downgrade to the previous JAWS 11 release. All the best, Amir ------------ My friend's second message: ------------ Just as a follow-up to my previous message, this bug affects the behavior of NumPad5 in a slightly different way. That is, if NumPad5 is pressed once on a Unicode character which has a certain value in Eloq.sbl, JAWS incorrectly reports that character in the form of the actual Unicode value minus 1. However, if NumPad5 is pressed twice on a Unicode character for its phonetic representation, JAWS incorrectly reads it in the form of the actual Unicode value plus 1. Just thought I'd pass this finding, too. Best, Amir ------------ Jonathan's reply: ------------ Hi Amir, the issue you've advised me of is actually a design change in JAWS. If you could please let me know your serial number, we'll look at your situation further and see if there's anything we can do for you. Jonathan ------------ My friend's reply: ------------ Hi Jonathan, That's a bit strange because the JAWS online help still indicates that Unicode symbols can be added for engines like Eloquence which support it. Eloq.sbl is mentioned, too. At any rate, am I correct in assuming that in the future it would be impossible to use Eloquence to read and type modified Unicode symbols and get correct feedback? May I ask why this decision has been made? As I live in a country which is now under various sanctions, I can't use credit cards or PayPal to pay for any app including JAWS, so I have to use it in demo mode. The only exception to this is, as you know, use apps I test. On the other hand, I heavily depend on JAWS for reading and writing Persian letter by letter, using my modified Eloq.sbl file in combination with Eloquence, because Persian doesn't have a TTS engine. Would it be possible to kindly make changes to the status quo? Best, Amir ------------ Jonathan's reply: ------------ Hi Amir, JAWS now requires a language processor to work with Arabic and Hebrew correctly. This can be sourced from our Arabic distributor Medialog - http://www.medialog.ws Hope this helps. Jonathan ------------ My friend's final reply: ------------ Hi Jonathan, Thanks for the note regarding the Arabic distributor of FreedomScientific products. However, following the URL which you provided results in the display of a webpage with an error message, regardless of the browser used, indicating that the page cannot be displayed. Do you happen to have a download link for that language processor? As I badly need the processor, your help would be greatly appreciated. For your information, I'm pasting the error message which is apparently in both French and English below. Medialog Accessibilities 404 - Fichier ou répertoire introuvable. frame Erreur de serveur 404 - Fichier ou répertoire introuvable. La ressource que vous recherchez a peut-être été supprimée, renommée ou est temporairement indisponible. 404 - Fichier ou répertoire introuvable. frame end The page cannot be found frame The page cannot be found The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please try the following: . Make sure that the Web site address displayed in the address bar of your browser is spelled and formatted correctly. . If you reached this page by clicking a link, contact the Web site administrator to alert them that the link is incorrectly formatted. . Click the Back button to try another link. HTTP Error 404 - File or directory not found. Internet Information Services (IIS) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technical Information (for support personnel) . Go to Microsoft Product Support Services and perform a title search for the words HTTP and 404. . Open IIS Help, which is accessible in IIS Manager (inetmgr), and search for topics titled Web Site Setup, Common Administrative Tasks, and About Custom Error Messages. The page cannot be found frame end Best, Amir ------------ Now, do you think this intentionally-introduced bug, which affects certain right-to-left languages, shouldn't be addressed in JAWS 12? Interestingly, even the first iterations of JAWS 11 didn't exhibit this bug, but its later releases do. I sincerely hope Freedom Scientific address that more responsibly without thinking about the extra copies it might sell to those who do not even need an Arabic or Hebrew TTS engine to read individual right-to-left languages. This is like getting Windows users in certain countries to purchase localized releases of Windows just to be able to read and write in their own native languages. BTW, if you can remember, my friend Amir has been behind the Symbian-oriented MobileSpace blog and also participates in beta testing certain accessibility-related products for the visually impaired. Best regards, Armond -- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx-- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx$U«zVyÙbzK hhTêZ?èm¶Yÿà ç?¢k ?éí?øor?¿IÊâ¦Ø§,f¢-)à-+-?Ûiÿùb²Û-.èÝ.Ê&þX¬¶)ß¡È"þÇ+S>h,¶©?+az7ar??bâ²Ø§²ÚîrبzÄè¦<-jg¬±¨ ¶yúèsØb²f¢-)à-+-±éÝjg¬±¨ ¶^ß·ª¹ë-~·z-+-²SàÂ+a¶°¢·nzË>±Êâm觶¬¹¸ÞrÙb?à+r¯zÉhq«^u«a¶Úÿ 0~·z-+-²SàýªÜ?+Þ³øßÀ mz¹Ú¶+Þj·!S÷¬-?µçZ¶m§ÿçÚv>nWo¢oÉdY¢µ¢?Ú0±ýµã?»öf"?ò¢èZ½æ§ÉÊ'qê籦èºÛazX¬¶s,¶·oz+ÞuúèsØ^-+-¢»a{²¶¥SËb±·¢zî?Ú'¢Úh²Ûazkh¶¥SËQjØ^Ê'µ§-¶¥SËhÂw«jØßÁ§fS{ ç¥SËl -- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx$zyzT?¶Ã¢??rI¦,--?ÿ²..þ¶¡þS,?zr²²rz¦j±¶z¶v¢~-²N²rys²--±j±¶Â¹~-²Â¶¢z±m¶¹r?rzqu¶ÿ~-²ý?³Àz¶jS-µ¶§Ún¢¢?±ãö"¢½Éq±ºz¶¶zus-¢{¶S±z?¢²z¶Sjµ¶SÂjÁSS-- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3054 - Release Date: 08/06/10 08:37:00 -- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx$U«zVyÙbzK hhTêZ?èm¶Yÿà ç?¢k ?éí?øor?¿IÊâ¦Ø§,f¢-)à-+-?Ûiÿùb²Û-.èÝ.Ê&þX¬¶)ß¡È"þÇ+S>h,¶©?+az7ar??bâ²Ø§²ÚîrبzÄè¦<-jg¬±¨ ¶yúèsØb²f¢-)à-+-±éÝjg¬±¨ ¶^ß·ª¹ë-~·z-+-²SàÂ+a¶°¢·nzË>±Êâm觶¬¹¸ÞrÙb?à+r¯zÉhq«^u«a¶Úÿ 0~·z-+-²SàýªÜ?+Þ³øßÀ mz¹Ú¶+Þj·!S÷¬-?µçZ¶m§ÿçÚv>nWo¢oÉdY¢µ¢?Ú0±ýµã?»öf"?ò¢èZ½æ§ÉÊ'qê籦èºÛazX¬¶s,¶·oz+ÞuúèsØ^-+-¢»a{²¶¥SËb±·¢zî?Ú'¢Úh²Ûazkh¶¥SËQjØ^Ê'µ§-¶¥SËhÂw«jØßÁ§fS{ ç¥SËl-- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx$U«zVyÙbzK hhTêZ?èm¶Yÿà ç?¢k ?éí?øor?¿IÊâ¦Ø§,f¢-)à-+-?Ûiÿùb²Û-.èÝ.Ê&þX¬¶)ß¡È"þÇ+S>h,¶©?+az7ar??bâ²Ø§²ÚîrبzÄè¦<-jg¬±¨ ¶yúèsØb²f¢-)à-+-±éÝjg¬±¨ ¶^ß·ª¹ë-~·z-+-²SàÂ+a¶°¢·nzË>±Êâm觶¬¹¸ÞrÙb?à+r¯zÉhq«^u«a¶Úÿ 0~·z-+-²SàýªÜ?+Þ³øßÀ mz¹Ú¶+Þj·!S÷¬-?µçZ¶m§ÿçÚv>nWo¢oÉdY¢µ¢?Ú0±ýµã?»öf"?ò¢èZ½æ§ÉÊ'qê籦èºÛazX¬¶s,¶·oz+ÞuúèsØ^-+-¢»a{²¶¥SËb±·¢zî?Ú'¢Úh²Ûazkh¶¥SËQjØ^Ê'µ§-¶¥SËhÂw«jØßÁ§fS{ ç¥SËl-- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx-- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx -- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
-- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxTo unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfwAlternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3056 - Release Date: 08/07/10 07:28:00
-- JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list: http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW List instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw Alternative archives located at: http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
