Re: screen reader superiority

Hi Drew,
NVDA stands for Nonvisual Desktop Access. NVDA is a free, open-source screen reader. If you want to read about it and try it out, go to:

www.nvda-project.org

Tom

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dhunthausen" <dhunthausen@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: screen reader superiority


What is NVDA? I don't know if I missed something. thanks

Drew

Drew Hunthausen
714-296-7111
Mailto: dhunthausen@xxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: screen reader superiority


I would say that even if you can't afford another screen reader, you should have the free NVDA screen reader on your system. The first thing I do when my speech goes silent is to hit the NVDA hot key. If NVDA starts speaking, I know it's a JAWS crash; if nothing happens, I know it's more than likely a computer crash. NVDA works better than Narrator, which is included with Windows, and it lets you choose the speech synthesizer you want to use if it is SAPI compliant. It has its own built-in speech synthesizer, but you probably wouldn't want to use it. It lets me finish what I'm doing before I either try to restart JAWS or reboot.

Gary King
w4wkz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri" <shalom75@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 2:58 PM
Subject: screen reader superiority


Hello, all. It is as has previously been mentioned, beneficial to all to have one other screen reader besides Jaws. The sighted folks use two or more graphics programs so why are we any different? It is best not to rely excusively on one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!


As for Zdenek's questions about which screen reader is better, I just
suggested he try them out for himself.  No one screen reader meets
everyone's needs.

As for Armond's petition idea, I expressed my opinion of the value of such
petitions based on past performance.

And as for your admonishment, I see now that your name is Gerald, not James;
I thought for a minute there that you were the list moderator.

Gary King
w4wkz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Levy" <bwaylimited@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!



Why don't you guys take this discussion off list? If you want to keep bashing FS or discuss alternatives to JAWS, do it elsewhere.

Gerald
----- Original Message ----- From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!


but thee real question is is windoweyes better than jaws? In which areas is it better in which areas is it worse?
Zdenek

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary King" <w4wkz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!


Zddenek,
The other major screen reader is Window-Eyes. If you monitor the GW-Micro list, you will see that users of this screen reader have problems with it as
well.

As for the free screen readers, if a user's needs are simple, reading email, surfing the net, etc., one of them will probably meet his needs. Otherwise,
he will have to pay and pay again to keep up-to-date.

As for the FBI, which you have mentioned more than once in your messages, now that they have your email address from reading the JAWS list, they have probably tracked you down already and are closing in on you as you read
this.  Run!

Gary King
w4wkz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx



----- Original Message ----- From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!


can someone finally spelled out thee real alternatives for me, which of them are better than jaws please! I hear on this list that there are real alternatives but nothing specific as to what is bbetter than jaws if you
know an alternative superior to jaws just say it so all of us could
benefit. For instance the authors of linux distribution vinux admit that the speech software for linux is still more limited tthan jaws is. I don't feel comfortable buying a mac, specially since FBI cqan get a hold of my
info and as well as importantly the cost of mac acceeds the cost of
upgrade of jaws many times. So any real superior alternatives, or is it just a talk and being fed up with a corporation named freedom scientific?
I wonder whether users of other screen readers don't have similar
complains about their own software.
Many thanks ofr a clear and specific answer to which software is superior
to jaws.
Zddenek

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy Ingram-Gorban" <Dorothy.ingram-gorban@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "org, jfw@freelists. " <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!


John it has obviously served you well in its time and may continue ,but
it
is a wise manufacturer of any product who listens to its customers,and
they
are the blind world wide, some have never been subsidised but used their savings, some on this list are in residential nursing homes on a fixed income, and still loyal to fs, but if fs fails to listen,now of all times
to
the concerns of its customer base it will fail in the same manner many famous products have done in the past, for the first time there real choices, and whether or not fs is wise I think will soon be apparent.
Regards  Dorothy
----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Vaughn" <jrvaughn44@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 12:35 AM
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!


I concur with your sentiments. I have been using Jaws for over 20 years
now
and it kept me employed, enjoying life and now enjoying retirement.
FS and Jaws are not the be all and end all, but they have to have a
product
that works for folks. If it is not working for you, move on. Meanwhile, this is a Jaws list to be a positive support to other jaws users. Lets
do
this or I will move on.
John in sunny florida
----- Original Message ----- From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!


that's my understanding that eloquence is a history, but I am not
freedom
scientific better check out with them. I did not mean to crriticize the other fellow just asking to be more thoughtful and careful with words.
It
seems to me that on this list there has become fashinable and perhaps rightly so to critisize jaws but noone suggests better product or am I
missing something?
Zdenek

----- Original Message ----- From: "Farfar Carlson" <dgcarlson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!


Zdenek,

I agree that the statement is almost meant to be inflammatory.

You wrote: "I believe that they are leaving eloquence instead of
focusing
on
using the realspeak  voices..."


Just to clarify, did you mean that they are moving away from Eloquence
and
will instead push to use RealSpeak voices?

I'd not be happy with using only RealSpeak for my day-to-day work.

Dave
----- Original Message ----- From: "Zdenek Vopat" <zdenekvopat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 07:48
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!


that's a pretty strong claim to make. In any rate I believe that they
are
leaving eloquence instead of focusing on using the realspeak voices
that
you can download for free, so perhaps that may explain the issue.
Zdenek

----- Original Message ----- From: "Devona" <djasister@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!


Did they fix it?

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Armond" <armond1980@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:19 AM
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Freedom Scientific introduces bugs intentionally!

Hi, all,
Many of you might find the following email exchange between a friend
of
mine and Freedom Scientific's Jonathan Mosen shocking or, rather, frustrating. Basically, it describes a Unicode-related bug in newer releases of JAWS 11 which later turned out to be an intentional move
on
the point of Freedom Scientific to get users to purchase a certain right-to-left language pack from a dealer--at a higher cost--though
this
is against the spirit of the Unicode feature. Here's my friend's message--note that he himself doesn't have a blog or venue to voice
his
concerns and isn't interested in pursuing that line of action either
for
various reasons, so I'm doing that on his behalf and on the behalf of
those who have been affected:
------------
Hello Jonathan,
Please forgive me for sending you this message. The following bug is
so
serious that I decided to notify you as I don't know to which
FreedomScientific employee it should be sent. This affects the latest
JAWS
11 update.
As you know, each unicode symbol or character has a value in hex. For
instance, the Persian or Arabic character "?" ("Alef") has the
following
value: U+627.
Now JAWS 11 interprets hex values in the form of the correct value
minus
1. That is, for instance, the letter "Alef" with the value of U+627
is
read is "Yaa hamzeh" which has the hex value of U+626. That's quite strange, but the bug indeed affects all unicode symbols modified in Eloq.sbl! This means that I can't use the Eloquence engine to type or
read
characters in Persian and Arabic because what I type or whatever the cursor points to will be read as something else by JAWS 11.0.1447. Would you please inform JAWS developers about this bug? I don't want
to
downgrade to the previous JAWS 11 release.
All the best,
Amir
------------
My friend's second message:
------------
Just as a follow-up to my previous message, this bug affects the
behavior
of NumPad5 in a slightly different way. That is, if NumPad5 is
pressed
once on a Unicode character which has a certain value in Eloq.sbl,
JAWS
incorrectly reports that character in the form of the actual Unicode
value
minus 1. However, if NumPad5 is pressed twice on a Unicode character
for
its phonetic representation, JAWS incorrectly reads it in the form of
the
actual Unicode value plus 1. Just thought I'd pass this finding, too.
Best,
Amir
------------
Jonathan's reply:
------------
Hi Amir, the issue you've advised me of is actually a design change
in
JAWS. If you could please let me know your serial number, we'll look
at
your situation further and see if there's anything we can do for you.
Jonathan
------------
My friend's reply:
------------
Hi Jonathan,
That's a bit strange because the JAWS online help still indicates
that
Unicode symbols can be added for engines like Eloquence which support
it.
Eloq.sbl is mentioned, too. At any rate, am I correct in assuming
that
in
the future it would be impossible to use Eloquence to read and type modified Unicode symbols and get correct feedback? May I ask why this
decision has been made?
As I live in a country which is now under various sanctions, I can't
use
credit cards or PayPal to pay for any app including JAWS, so I have
to
use
it in demo mode. The only exception to this is, as you know, use apps
I
test. On the other hand, I heavily depend on JAWS for reading and
writing
Persian letter by letter, using my modified Eloq.sbl file in
combination
with Eloquence, because Persian doesn't have a TTS engine.
Would it be possible to kindly make changes to the status quo?
Best,
Amir
------------
Jonathan's reply:
------------
Hi Amir, JAWS now requires a language processor to work with Arabic
and
Hebrew correctly.
This can be sourced from our Arabic distributor Medialog -
http://www.medialog.ws
Hope this helps.
Jonathan
------------
My friend's final reply:
------------
Hi Jonathan,
Thanks for the note regarding the Arabic distributor of
FreedomScientific
products. However, following the URL which you provided results in
the
display of a webpage with an error message, regardless of the browser used, indicating that the page cannot be displayed. Do you happen to
have
a download link for that language processor? As I badly need the
processor, your help would be greatly appreciated.
For your information, I'm pasting the error message which is
apparently
in
both French and English below.
Medialog Accessibilities
404 - Fichier ou répertoire introuvable. frame
Erreur de serveur
404 - Fichier ou répertoire introuvable.
La ressource que vous recherchez a peut-être été supprimée, renommée
ou
est temporairement indisponible.
404 - Fichier ou répertoire introuvable. frame end
The page cannot be found frame
The page cannot be found
The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name
changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please try the following:
. Make sure that the Web site address displayed in the address bar of
your
browser is spelled and formatted correctly.
. If you reached this page by clicking a link, contact the Web site administrator to alert them that the link is incorrectly formatted.
. Click the Back button to try another link.
HTTP Error 404 - File or directory not found.
Internet Information Services  (IIS)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technical Information (for support personnel)
. Go to Microsoft Product Support Services and perform a title search
for
the words HTTP and 404.
. Open IIS Help, which is accessible in IIS Manager (inetmgr), and
search
for topics titled Web Site Setup, Common Administrative Tasks, and
About
Custom Error Messages.
The page cannot be found frame end
Best,
Amir
------------
Now, do you think this intentionally-introduced bug, which affects
certain
right-to-left languages, shouldn't be addressed in JAWS 12?
Interestingly,
even the first iterations of JAWS 11 didn't exhibit this bug, but its later releases do. I sincerely hope Freedom Scientific address that
more
responsibly without thinking about the extra copies it might sell to
those
who do not even need an Arabic or Hebrew TTS engine to read
individual
right-to-left languages. This is like getting Windows users in
certain
countries to purchase localized releases of Windows just to be able
to
read and write in their own native languages.
BTW, if you can remember, my friend Amir has been behind the
Symbian-oriented MobileSpace blog and also participates in beta
testing
certain accessibility-related products for the visually impaired.
Best regards,
Armond
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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08:37:00

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