[ian-reeds-games] Re: Some thoughts on randomized numbers
- From: "Allan Thompson" <allan1.thompson@xxxxxxx>
- To: <ian-reeds-games@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 17:45:43 -0500
Hi Ian,
This is really going to be complex I think, grin.
Saves or saving throws is a generic term for a character ability to resist
damage, or effect.
Other names for it are resistance, dodge, relfex, fortitude, willpower,
block...the effects of a successful save can be cutting damage in half, taking
no damage, resisting a spell, or resisting a poisons effect. Resistance I guess
is the best word.
So in your chance of success, I would have to decide if the target gets a
chance to throw off that effect, or to sfufer lesser effects or damge from a
successfully resisted effect. Essentially that would result in the attacker
rolling their chance, and then the resister rolling their resist chance.
That might not be the best way to handle those kind of things, maybe solid
numbers would work better, to work against a single chance of success by the
attacker.
As for stats...these are tricky, and you don't want to install something and
find out it isn't balanced.
Most games use the standard attribute equals a modifier number which is placed
on certain dice rolls.
For instance, in D&D, an 18 strength gives a +4. Some use the attribute as the
number to reach on a dice roll.
In your chance of success, you would have to decide if an attribute would give
a modifier or be the modifier if you see the diffrence. I like the give the
modifier option, but I admit I am biased. Also int he first option, any number
could give any bonus or penelty. In my map an 18 in strength could be great,
but in another persons map an 18 in strength would be a puny weakling. In the
second method, everyone conforms to the same standard.
I liked the idea of a "critical" success or failure. That was sheer brilliance
and it makes sense.
When it comes to all dice rolls there is a large number of possible modifiers a
person might want to create to modify any one dice roll. Let's take the
detecting traps chance of success for an example:
Attribute/stat modifier ( hand eye coordination of 18 which is a bonus)
racial modifier (halflings are good at looking for stuff with sharp eyes)
enhancement modifier (the halfling's luckstone gives him a bonus!)
skill level modifier (This halfling is tenth level, nice bonus on that)
talent/feat/focus modifier (sacrificed learning how to sneak for extra detect
traps points)
terrain/environment modifiers (it's pretty dark so that could be a penelty)
status effect modifier (that evil cleric cursed him so he is feeling a little
jittery)
al
"The truth will set you free"
Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Reed
To: ian-reeds-games@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 3:55 PM
Subject: [ian-reeds-games] Re: Some thoughts on randomized numbers
Allan, I just remembered that you sent a great email about dice rolls
close to when the mailing list got started.
One of the big things in it was being able to base the chance of success
on a point value such as strength or dexterity.
These are a new type of points I will want to support in the future.
They are basically the same as other points except that they don't have
the concept of a max value.
I think this is important. And also determining the chance of
successfully disarming a trap versus the chance of triggering the trap
versus the chance of failing to disarm but also not triggering.
I think saving throws are kind of like a chance to dodge or resist an
effect completely.
I'm going to include a large chunk of your original email so we can
consider how we might implement these things with the direction I am
currently taking with chance of stuff.
Here's what Allan said:
All rpg games of any genre feature a dice roll, with bonus/penelties to
modify that dice roll, and in most cases, the total result is then
compared to the success number predetermined. This usually means a
number or higher is needed to show a success in that dice roll.
While other games use other more complex dice roll success methods, I
think the simplest method, and most used is the simple number comparison
for one roll.
Almost all games have dice rolls that are under the number 100. The dice
most RPG games use are the d4, d6, d8, d10, d12 and d100. I dont think
any dice should be hard coded in. I think mostly that any set of numbers
should be entered in, allowing for a map creator to choose what seems
right to them.
I would imagine that some default file would be set up. All rolls are
basically in these catagories. Attack roll, saving roll, skill roll,
damage roll, attribute roll. There may be others but these are
essentially the basics of most rpg games.
Again, I wouldn't hard code these things.
I am thinking along these lines.
Have in the unit default file that lists the diffrent rolls the creator
wants, just like with the points.
These would be default rolls for everything in the map pack. I see them
having a minimum/maximum value.
So, in a D&D map, I would declare "Attack_roll=1 20" to mean that the
attack roll would be a random number between 1 and twenty.
Or, if I wanted a roll between 1 and 100 I could make it this way,
"Attack_roll=1 100".
It might be good to add a "lesser than" to that, so that the program
needs to know if a number or higher(default) is to be a success, or a
number and lower is to be a success.
So let's say I have a halfling with the dexterity attribute of16. I
determined that attribute rolls for the halfling are to be "lower than".
Meaning that number or lower. I would write it like
this, "attribute_roll=1 20 <". That would mean that a roll of 16 or
under is a success instead of the normal greater then default.
The attributes I see as reagular point max scores. This will make it
easier to affect their attributes simply by lowering the point of the
attribute. For example, a rogue might have a sneak attack that does
"damage" to someone's strength attribute. That could be done with the
points which is already set up.
For terrain, items and units these would have a defense number of some
sort. I am not sure if these should be hard coded or not. But for
example, if I wanted my halfling to "picka lock" on a chest, I imagine
the chest would have a success number required to do that with. It might
skill_roll_success=12" So that the halfing skill roll would kick in, add
modifiers, then determine success or not, and any effects after that,
such as a trap going off, or a counter on a silent alarm that summons
orcs to come and defend their treasure.
Now I am thinking that each unit could be given success numbers.
These would tie in with the damage types very nicely. For example one
could type in for a halfling unit, "physical_success=12". That would
mean all physical attacks would need a twelve or higher to hit the halfling.
Skills, effects, items and even terrain would affect the success numbers
on units. A map creator would just have to keep the damage types in mind.
So essentially each unit, structure and item would need rolls, and
numbers to resist rolls against them.
the damage roll would be a separate roll on skills and the other
objects. It could either be a default, for instance, "longsowrd_damage=1
8" or it could be in the skill as "health_inflict_random=1,8".
skills, effects, terrain and items could have modifiers to random rolls.
I imagine something like, "damage_roll_add=1" for +1 to random damage
rolls, and "attack_roll_add=-1" for a negative one to an attack roll.
Of course, I am most familiar with dungeons and dragons so I used that
as examples, but the strength would come from a map creator determining
the "dice" and all the things scaled to it.
I say: There's a lot there Allan. Thanks for getting us started
thinking about these things. I'm not sure it will be implemented
exactly as you've laid it out here but what you are trying to solve for
is definitely something I want to solve for.
Ian Reed
Other related posts:
