>What is also the case, though, is that we already *have* R5. It exists. >I'm running it. If R5 is equivalent to R1, then we have R1. So why not There is have, and there is have. :-) We have no source, no possible way to extend, to hope for the future R5. Yup. Also, believe it or not, I believe that there is cruft in R5. From Dr8,9 PR,DR3,DR4, etc. We will come through cruft free with something that we understand and have the source to. Is that not enough? >start building the cool things now? Sure, it would be nice to have it >all open source. But we can, at the same time as we replace those >components, make them better. There is no reason to simply go blindly In a few cases we are. Where it is fall down, dead obvious. mmap is a good example. So is networking in the kernel. How about integrated FS/VM cache? All good stuff. But where we are drawing the line is in creating new APIs and changing the ones that exist. *IF* there were some design out there that was legal to look at that was R6, I would seriously consider it. If I could go into an alternate future and come back with the BeBook from BeOS 2015, we would implement that. But, truth is, design is hard. And designing a complete OS is very hard. And doing that as volunteers who have never built an OS before? Well, I wouldn't say that it is impossible, but I think that it is very hard. I don't know of any really successful attempts at that. Cloning R5's API is the best way that I know to get going. I like the example of AROS - they spent years debating design before they said forget this and built AmigaOS 3 (recreating the last release). Once they did that, they knew how to procede from there. >cloning things if you are not planning on improving them in the >process. >-Nathan