I've heard it from others and God knows I've experienced it personally. Paul I thought you claimed to be an athiest.. Maybe we are infecting you... Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Deema To: Geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 11:08 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: magnitude of scale. Allen D Hooray!!! At last!! Some agreement! Thank you. Is it now possible that I may not be quite as confused as you keep suggesting? I'll forgo commenting on all the petty little differences and misunderstandings and try to build on this milestone. (Note -- that's a milestone NOT a millstone!) but before I get to that, I think I must address two matters -- unanswered questions and unclear communication. I don't ask what may appear to be pointless questions with any intention of diverting your attention or confusing you or wasting your time. I do so because I have a purpose in mind but you resolutely avoid answering these questions for some reason or other and not just mine either -- I've been following your debate with JA. Perhaps you decide that you know best whether there is any point and unilaterally disregard the question, in it would seem, ignorance of my purpose in asking it. This just wastes my time and hampers the advance of the discussion. You may simply be afraid that if you don't answer correctly that this will weaken your position. Well life involves risks -- take one! You may profit from the exercise. Now -- Unclear Communication! You have a reputation for this on this forum -- I've heard it from others and God knows I've experienced it personally. I'll go out on a limb here and guess that it doesn't stop there. I'll guess that you experience this with most of the people with whom you interact at a level greater than a simple interrogative designed to elicit the price of a cup of coffee. Instead of simply blaming others eg me, for failing to understand your offerings, consider first the possibility that you haven't clearly communicated your thoughts. More frightening but necessary, consider considering the possibility that you may, however faintly, be mistaken. Consider interacting with that person to clarify the situation. That includes responding to questions asked. Adopt a conciliatory, cooperative approach -- it works much better that antagonism. You would give me hope if you would -- as an exercise perhaps -- take the few moments of time necessary to answer the basketball question and give me your impression of the url I gave you. [Proof reading before transmission, I gain the feeling that this could be interpreted as an attempt at domination. Perish that thought. I'm solely interested communication on the path to truth and understanding]. Philip has taken the trouble to do the latter even though he is not participating directly in this discussion. Remember though -- no more than three lines of 12 pitch Arial font text. Then later, in a new adventurous spirit, you might consider the problem I posed in the question of The Plank! OK -- got that off my chest -- to business. From your last post - Ok Paul..I reread this part again........and i did misread you here....... I DON'T UNDERSTAND ANY OF THIS. THE DAILY (nightly) SET OF TRAILS IS CENTRED ON THE NCP WITH THE RADIUS OF EACH CIRCULAR ARC DEPENDANT UPON THE ANGULAR SEPARATION OF THAT STAR FROM THE GEOGRAPHICAL POLAR AXIS.( NCP inserted here for my clarification)..... THE ANNUAL SET OF TRAILS IS CENTRED ON THE NEP WITH THE RADIUS OF EACH ARC DEPENDANT UPON THE ANGULAR SEPARATION OF THAT STAR FROM THE ECLIPTIC POLAR AXIS.(NEP ) DEPENDING UPON THE WIDTH FIELD OF VIEW, MANY STARS MAY MAKE TRAILS IN EACH PHOTO RECORD...each star must follow a path that roatates around thoese two axis [ PD I would have said that the path is centered on the axis but yes. ] ok......I think i can agree on this with you......so how does this expalin why we do not see both....these facts would demand that we see both...?..My understaning of your explination is that they are somehow the same or are viewed the same..? Now -- My understaning of your explination is that they are somehow the same or are viewed the same..? I'm not too sure exactly what you mean here so I'll try to explain and hope that you grasp my point. If you followed my short exchange with JA on how I visualised the process which led me to accept his thinking as illustrated in his "Drawing1.bmp", you will have seen the two drawings I sent him in my two posts Re: Is geocentrism supported by facts (Supplementary) From Paul Deema Tue Nov 6 18:23:19 2007 and (same thread) Wed Nov 7 11:12:46 2007 which pretty much explain the mechanics of how I visualised these actions. The first thing to do in solving any problem is to reduce it to its essential parts, if possible simplifying in the process. If the problem involves two (or more) components -- treat each component separately. In this exercise, I look at the daily (this means happens once per 24 h) you call it nightly, phenomenon and ask "What do we need to do in order to record this event?" Well we all know the answer to that one -- nail a camera to the Earth, point it at the centre of rotation -- Earth or stars, it matters not -- chock the shutter open, wait an hour or three, remove the chock, print the picture -- Voila! Star trails. It gets more difficult to visualise the other part. We can't see the ecliptic plane, or the axis at the centre, or its inclination to the Earth's axis but we opine that they exist, not physically but as intellectual entities. So we then devise a substitute for the ecliptic disk, nail the camera to it, point it straight up, chock the shutter open for a month or three, pull the chock, print the picture and look. You say there will be no trails about the axis, I say there will. The debate then becomes an exploration of the actions and the mechanics involved. I've kept this deliberately general. The object is to agree on the principles involved, the names of the parts etc. Are you still with me? Please try to limit discussion to just these few points. Paul D ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ National Bingo Night. Play along for the chance to win $10,000 every week. Download your gamecard now at Yahoo!7 TV. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1119 - Release Date: 8/11/2007 5:55 PM