[geocentrism] Re: magnitude of scale.
- From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 19:20:10 +0000 (GMT)
Allen D
Excellent response -- I can deal with every statement and know with
considerable confidence that I understand what you are saying.
I'll choose this colour. (Well I like it -- it's pretty!) Actually, I don't
know what colour you see. It's repeatable here on Yahoo but if I compose off
line with Wordpad, it's closer to red.
Paul D
----- Original Message ----
From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, 9 November, 2007 3:20:14 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: magnitude of scale.
Paul,
OK, I will keep this general for you now ..The Mechanics discused here are
quite simple. They are accurately reflected in the diagrams i gave you that are
themselves pretty self explanatory...but lets start back at square one so to
speak.............. Yes, lets keep it general for now.
comments to you in blue
.......................................
Now -- My understaning of your explination is that they are somehow the same or
are viewed the same..? I'm not too sure exactly what you mean here so I'll try
to explain and hope that you grasp my point. If you followed my short exchange
with JA on how I visualised the process which led me to accept his thinking as
illustrated in his "Drawing1.bmp", you will have seen the two drawings I sent
him in my two posts Re: Is geocentrism supported by facts (Supplementary) From
Paul Deema Tue Nov 6 18:23:19 2007 and (same thread) Wed Nov 7 11:12:46 2007
which pretty much explain the mechanics of how I visualised these actions.
Ok i can live with drawing "A".... For clarity sake -- we are talking about my
SevenViews.png? I am proceeding on that assumption. which shows basically what
my "9" shows..........that you said confused you....? Yes -- but let's not be
distracted. Keep moving ahead while progress is in the offing.
The first thing to do in solving any problem is to reduce it to its essential
parts, if possible simplifying in the process. If the problem involves two (or
more) components -- treat each component separately. In this exercise, I look
at the daily (this means happens once per 24 h) you call it nightly, phenomenon
and ask "What do we need to do in order to record this event?" Well we all know
the answer to that one -- nail a camera to the Earth, point it at the centre of
rotation -- It does not have to be aimed at the center of roation and i think
this seems to be a key point for you, but it matters not if the camera is
facing in a differnt angle then the roation.
The reason this is so long coming, is that I have reconsidered this matter and
you are correct. And so long as the NCP is somewhere into the frame then
circles will form around it regardless of whether the stars or the Earth
rotate. (Drawing AxisOfRotate.png attached). I may have to retract certain
parts of SevenViews.png and the description. Later. Onward.
Once you see this and the fact that you incorrectly model the motions, you
should then realise how quickly your arguments fall appart. Earth or stars, it
matters not -- chock the shutter open, wait an hour or three, remove the chock,
print the picture -- Voila! Star trails.
It gets more difficult to visualise the other part. No it is not. It is the
exact same action, with the exact same stars, only a larger motion ..What is
difficult to visualise is the fact that we don't see it, when we see the other
for the same reasons, and yet you insist that it exist.......I do not concede
this point yet as there is a fundamental difference. I realised my error
concerning the necessity of changing my position above when I realised that in
my visualisation, I had simply rotated the camera whereas what is happening is
that the camera complete with its offset is being rotated -- that is -- the
camera is being rotated but so is the offset. The pic attached may help.
However, in the case of rotation about the NEP (or SCP), the camera as I have
placed it need have no offset and so long as it rotates about the NEP rather
than the NCP, the centre of rotation is in the frame -- just as for the daily
example -- and circles around this pole --
the NEP -- will be evident. We can't see the ecliptic plane, or the axis at
the centre, or its inclination to the Earth's axis but we opine that they
exist, not physically but as intellectual entities. in the exact same way that
the NCP exist ..none of this would realy have come into question prior to
photographic plates...I think you are probably correct...So we then devise a
substitute for the ecliptic disk, nail the camera to it, point it straight up,
chock the shutter open for a month or three, pull the chock, print the picture
and look. You say there will be no trails about the axis, I say there will.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I'll call a halt here Allen -- it's 06h00 and I really should sleep. Please, a
short note if you like -- to accept (or deny) tonight's efforts -- but nothing
new. Hint -- you still haven't answered those two questions!
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
wrong!...you will most certainly see nightly trails, I have said this over and
over.....? The debate then becomes an exploration of the actions and the
mechanics involved.
I've kept this deliberately general. The object is to agree on the principles
involved, the names of the parts etc. Are you still with me? Please try to
limit discussion to just these few points.
Look at the diagram again. You model things either incompletely or incorrectly.
If you are going to model the system you need and must model all components of
the model not just pick and choose..look again at the diagram i gave you ..that
model is the exact mechanics of the HC/AC earth sun system even according to
MS. That model will produce and demonstrate both motions on one camera..but the
reality will only ever produce the nightly ones..... that is the rub..
Paul D
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