Dear James, I've taken another look at your drawings and your explanation and it would seem that you have managed to show what a heliocentric annual star trail would look like - a very nice flower pattern, however that is not what we see do we, we only see circles. QED? Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: j a To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:08 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Is geocentrism supported by facts? (Supplementary) Paul, Glad to hear it's not long forgotten. Take your time, your choice of discussing the axioms involved in formulating one's mindset torwards creation or evolution was great idea. Everyone, Attached is a drawing illustraiting my understanding of what we should see produced in star trails from the nightly and annual axis of rotation. Since the baseline (distance from observer to axis of rotation) is so small compared the distance to the stars, I have basically made it zero length, in order to get the drawing somewhat to scale. I added a star A to the drawing to help my imagination, it could be any star that would be very close to the annual axis of rotation. Finally I made what it should look like if you took 24 nightly star trail pictures (spaced semi-monthly) and superimposed them on a single annual star trail. enough nightly star trails superimposed together should form the outline of the annual. Your comments please. I want to make sure I understand this and do not have something basic wrong. JA...