Philip M In defence of Pauls position: Now I have already challenged everyone to disprove my claim that this discussion creation versus evolution, is pointless because God did create an aged universe. I come into the discussion here only to point at what I consider is faulty reasoning when a creationist tries to debunk an evolutionist, in what I consider is his "just and reasonable scientific position" I have entertained the idea that if God is the creator of all that is seen and unseen and he is as clever as we have been encouraged to believe, then the universe will have been created in such a way that it would be impossible to determine whether it was done by natural or supernatural means. All evidence as to how the universe works would be perfectly embedded in the the physical universe as we find it. Thus it matters not which way it happened, the answers we find would be the same in both cases. Indeed some have suggested -- unassailably -- that the universe could have been created one nanosecond ago with all the sedimentary rocks and embedded fossils, the starlight in transit, the memories intact -- a perfect deception. And to Paul, If you could only discern it Paul .This is wisdom: 21 For, seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world, by wisdom, knew not God, it pleased God, by the foolishness of our preaching, to save them that believe. 22 For both the Jews require signs: and the Greeks seek after wisdom. 23 But we preach Christ crucified: unto the Jews indeed a stumblingblock, and unto the Gentiles foolishness: 24 But unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ, the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men: and the weakness of God is stronger than men. Life would be a lot simpler if I could believe that. I also do not see it as fair, or profitable to God, to hurl science in which none can claim great expertise, at Paul, and expect him to have all the answers, let alone understand them. Thanks. Especially as I am so thoroughly epitomised by the last two thoughts. Paul D Sick of deleting your inbox? Yahoo!7 Mail has free unlimited storage. http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/unlimitedstorage.html