[geocentrism] Re: Evolution

It's James...

Jack Lewis <jack.lewis@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:      Thanks for your support, is it 
John I can't remember?
  Jack
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: j a 
  To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 3:55 PM
  Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Evolution
  

  Howdy Paul & all,
   
   I've finally gotten caught up on all the emails and thought I might jump in 
here with a quick responce. 
   
  Jack L
  Archaeopteryx is the archetypal transitional fossil Yes is has been called 
that, but if it has wings and feathers and flys then isn't it a bird? Plus your 
MS has found other completely bird birds in layers they consider to be much 
older, which should serve to destroy the idea of Archy as the transitional, you 
need to find another. but of course your side of the table just shifts ground 
and calls for a transitional fossil between it and the birds or between it and 
the lizards SO, don't you think asking for a demonstration of the changing from 
scales to feathers to be a reasonable request? They are after all completely 
different things. And even if you could provide some kind of series of 
transitional forms that still assumes that the geologic layers represend long 
ages instead of a succesion of rapid burials in a short period of time . It 
wouldn't matter how many transitional fossils are found in this series, the 
creationists will simply repeat the exercise in ever smaller
 increments. Calling something transitional, does not make it transitional. You 
are assuming it to be transitional because you can imagine how it could be and 
then you turn around and call it evidence to support your faith in evolution 
and this faith is what caused you to view it as transitional in the first 
place. A lovely little circle you've enslaved your mind with.
  Yes Apo A-I Milano is microevolution and it is an enhancement  So you can 
prove that nobody had that gene before the 400 year old ancestor had it? That 
it was actually something new and better and had not existed before? You got 
alot of assumption going on here. And lots of these in succession and in 
isolation eventually become a new species -- macroevolution. This is complete 
speculation without any evidence - This is imagination only. 
  Since no creationist to the best of my knowledge, has ever given a definition 
of 'kind', I doubt that you would break the mould but we live in hope. Are you 
prepared to offer such a definition? If you are, (or even if you're not) which 
Arkian 'kind' is the ancestor (by microevolution of course!) of the kangaroo? 
Or of the lemur? Or of the hawaiian carnivorous caterpillar as per the snippet 
below? What the distinct kinds were and defining them is rather pointless and 
impossible since none of us were there to see and catalog them. I would have 
thought dolphins and whales were different kinds, but since it is possible for 
them to breed, I guess my first thought would be wrong and that they are the 
same kind. But your view of thier common ancestor is of course a bog, or the 
sea, or a rock, or a volcanic undersea vent, or a comet, or deep space, or 
space aliens or what, I can't really keep up with the endless speculation of 
how to get the right chemicals together to produce
 the first life. I have an Idea, why don't scientists just take some living 
things and put them in a blender, turn it on for a while, then let it sit while 
all the proper chemicals swim around together and form a new lifeform. Oh but 
wait, it's really a lot more complicated than just having all the right 
materials lying around together isn't it? Seems rather an insurmountable 
problem. As Jack has said it's the first thing you need to address. All your 
other evolutionary "evidence" is circular and pure imagination. If you'd like 
to produce a short list of your best and most meaningful proofs of evolution, I 
will respond to each as to why it is completely circular and/or imagination 
only. Or do you conceed the point and reconise that you simply believe in 
evolution and therefore interpret what you see from that vantage point. 
  I also have an historical perspective on the subject of evolution from the 
creationist point of view. Are you interested? Might give you some ideas.
  Paul D

Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
    DIV {   MARGIN: 0px  }        
  Jack L
  Archaeopteryx is the archetypal transitional fossil but of course your side 
of the table just shifts ground and calls for a transitional fossil between it 
and the birds or between it and the lizards. It wouldn't matter how many 
transitional fossils are found in this series, the creationists will simply 
repeat the exercise in ever smaller increments.
  Yes Apo A-I Milano is microevolution and it is an enhancement. And lots of 
these in succession and in isolation eventually become a new species -- 
macroevolution. 
  Since no creationist to the best of my knowledge, has ever given a definition 
of 'kind', I doubt that you would break the mould but we live in hope. Are you 
prepared to offer such a definition? If you are, (or even if you're not) which 
Arkian 'kind' is the ancestor (by microevolution of course!) of the kangaroo? 
Or of the lemur? Or of the hawaiian carnivorous caterpillar as per the snippet 
below?
  I also have an historical perspective on the subject of evolution from the 
creationist point of view. Are you interested? Might give you some ideas.
  Paul D
    Snippet from 
http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/acad/CTAHRInAction/Dec_05/caterpillar.asp.
   
  Our state is home to 350 known species of Hyposmocoma. Most of these species 
are endemic to a single island. Since first identifying the Maui caterpillar, 
Rubinoff and Haines have found different species of snail-eating Hyposmocoma on 
Molokai, Kauai, and the Big Island, revealing how our islands are hotbeds of 
evolution in which new organisms and survival strategies arise at a remarkable 
rate.



  
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