Re: [foxboro] Rate of Change Alarming
- From: "Johnson, Alex P \(IPS\)" <alex.johnson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 15:25:53 -0400
You might consider a AIN block with a small amount of filtering to feed
the REALM block. This AIN could be run in parallel with the "real" one.
Regards,
Alex Johnson
Invensys Systems, Inc.
10900 Equity Drive
Houston, TX 77041
713.329.8472 (voice)
713.329.1700 (fax)
713.329.1600 (switchboard)
alex.johnson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jaudon, Mike
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 10:22 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Rate of Change Alarming
Thanks to Leonardo (DiCapro) Moramarco and Brad Wilson (Pickett) for
your help but there is just one little hiccup I have to work out.
With the 500 DegF in 5 min ROC alarm (1.67 DegF/Min) and the parameters
you guys suggested it worked perfectly (I got the alarm after 5 minutes)
with one exception.
If at any point the ROC dropped below 1.67 (say for 10 seconds at the 2
minute mark) but increased back up and above the 1.67 (from the 2 minute
mark through the 5 minute mark) it would not give an alarm. It did give
the alarm later, however (at the 7 minute and 10 second mark).
It looks that the rate must be above the 1.67 for 5 consecutive minutes
for the alarm to generate whereas I what I want is "the average ROC of
1.67 for 5 minutes" then generate an alarm.
Corey Clingo mentioned a DTIME block and I believe it will do the
(weighted) average of a measurement over time. I will see if I can get
this to work.
Thanks to all for your help.
Michael L. Jaudon
TRONOX, LLC
(Technology Group-Hamilton, MS)
(662)343-8710 Office
(662)304-0313 Cell
mike.jaudon@xxxxxxxxxx
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-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Moramarco, Leo
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 6:59 PM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Rate of Change Alarming
The other parameter of REALM that you may be interested is:
ROCTIM: Rate of Change Time is the number of minutes that the
measurement's=3D3D
rate of change must remain greater than the rate of change limit,
ROCLIM, before the block generates an alarm. It is also the length of
time that the rate of change must remain below the limit to come out of
alarm.
Leonardo Moramarco
Instructor, Lifetime Learning Center
Invensys Systems Canada Inc.
Foxboro Division
Phone: 514.421.8301
Fax:514.421.8059
Cell:514.942.4342
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-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On=3D3D
Behalf Of Jaudon, Mike
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 11:28 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Rate of Change Alarming
Thanks Brad.
I understand better how the ROC works now BUT...as the "clients of the
D.C. Madam" say, here's what I really want is... if that 1.67 Deg/sec
rate is sustained for 5 minutes then alarm.
Is there an easy way of doing that without bringing that "alarm bit"
into a logic block and "DON" for 5 minutes?
Regards,
Michael L. Jaudon
TRONOX, LLC
(Technology Group-Hamilton, MS)
(662)343-8710 Office
(662)304-0313 Cell
mike.jaudon@xxxxxxxxxx
If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, any use,
distribution or copying of the message is prohibited. Please let me
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-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Wilson, Brad
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:08 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] Rate of Change Alarming
I just did a test with a RAMP and REALM and it worked as expected. The
trick is to get the units correct ... the RAMP.OUT is units/min and the
REALM.ROCVAL is units/sec. When I RAMPed at 50 %/min it showed up on the
REALM.ROCVAL as 0.833 %/sec.
In your case I would try
Make your REALM input scaling the same as the AIN that feeds it
REALM.ROCLIM =3D3D3D3D3D 1.67 (deg F/sec or 500 deg in 5 min)
REALM.ROCTIM =3D3D3D3D3D 5 (mins)
REALM.ROCOPT =3D3D3D3D3D 1 (enable ROC alarming)
Now, this will alarm if the instantaneous rate ever goes over 1.67
deg/sec. ROC alarming is absolute value, so you'll also get an alarm if
it falls 1.67 deg/sec. You might be able to "dampen" the alarming by
using a filter in the AIN block, but that is questionable.
Brad Wilson
brad.wilson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Invensys Systems, Inc
1090 King Georges Post Rd, Suite 204
Edison, NJ 08837
732-874-0087
-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jaudon, Mike
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:40 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [foxboro] Rate of Change Alarming
List,
=3D3D3D3D
Can anyone tell me how and what to set on a REALM block to make the ROC
work? In the past I have set up on a test bed and used a RAMP block to
test but it never works as I think it should.
=3D3D3D3D
I want an alarm to be generated when the temperature goes up 500 DegF in
5 minutes. The temp normally operates at a constant value but if it
increases by the 500 Degrees within 5 minutes then I want an alarm.
=3D3D3D3D
In the past I have accomplished this by building two AIN blocks and
changing the "period" on one and sending these to a REALM block (MEAS &
DEVSPT). One problem I have now is there is no period with a 5 minute
execution. Besides if I could configure the REALM correctly I would
only have to create one block instead of two.
=3D3D3D3D
Anyone with any ideas?
Michael L. Jaudon =3D3D3D3D
TRONOX, LLC =3D3D3D3D
(Technology Group-Hamilton, MS) =3D3D3D3D
(662)343-8710 Office =3D3D3D3D
(662)304-0313 Cell =3D3D3D3D
mike.jaudon@xxxxxxxxxx =3D3D3D3D
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