I rarely flip out about something, but the suggestion to just get a reader to look for page numbers is about the most inflamatory thing I have ever heard. There is very little I hated more than trying to do reports with the use of a reader, and mine was usually a relative I could bully a good bit. If we were to just use readers why bother with bookshare at all? And in case nobody noticed, good readers, along with $20 bills to pay them with, can not be found growing on trees or found in abundance in any other location. Okay, that's out of my system now, so I can return to being my normal self. :-) notice the smiley? Sarah Van Oosterwijck http://home.earthlink.net/~netentity ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Jordan" <juanitatighan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 2:47 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: solution for The Broker (sort of) > I prefer books not to have the print page numbers. that's just me, though. > If someone needs page numbers for a report, well ... there are readers who > can look up that sort of thing. That's what I had to do. I told him > aproximately where the passage was and he was ble to find it and give me the > page number. Time-consuming/ sure, but it can be done. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Scialli" <Peter.s@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 1:46 PM > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: solution for The Broker (sort of) > > > > I feel compelled to point out that in two to three years, when this book > > comes out on cassette tape from NLS, it will also not have page numbers. > > > > > > ________________________ > > Peter M. Scialli, Ph.D. > > Associate, Technical Projects, Bookshare.org > > www.bookshare.org > > > > A Project of The Benetech Initiative - Technology Serving Humanity > > peter @benetech.org > > www.benetech.org > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "siss52" <siss52@xxxxxxx> > > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 2:18 PM > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: solution for The Broker (sort of) > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rui, > > > > > > As far as "The Broker" goes, I am being truthful when I say that page > > > breaks > > > and page numbers are there in my brf copy. So I can't imagine why they > > > would not be there in the Daisy format. True, the validator did a rush > > > job > > > but there was a reason for it--to get the book up there for those of us > > > who > > > read books of that type for pleasure only. > > > > > > I have seen some very excellent books on the bookshare site during the > > > short > > > time I have been a member: i.e., with formatting, page breaks, chapter > > > headings, etc.. I feel confident that when The Brokers is resubmitted > by > > > Pratik it will be in apple pie shape because he has the equipmennt and > > > knows > > > the rules. > > > > > > Incidentally, I would include indices as well if there are any, but I > have > > > never seen a John Grisham book with indices, only acknowledgments..... > > > > > > Sue S. > > > No hate mail please. (smile) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Rui" <rui@xxxxxxxx> > > > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 12:48 PM > > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: solution for The Broker (sort of) > > > > > > > > > Good afternoon my fellow booksharians: > > > > > > We have now solved the problem for this one book, it took about a dozen > > > messages, not to mention the book is being re-edited a second time > instead > > > of correcting the original problem. > > > If you think there is a backlog now, if every book when through 2 edits > > > instead of getting it right the first time, you would have a 1500 book > > > step > > > 1 page. > > > > > > > > > For the few times I do read a book as i am currently doing with a > > > validation, (good book brian) i continuously read and the page info does > > > not > > > bother me at all, in fact it is useful. i know that i am on page 134 of > > > the > > > book, not maybe around page 134, but actually on page 134 of the > original > > > text, (because the page # from the book is present) > > > > > > Once the autmated tool hacks at the book, then you have a different > story. > > > no heading, no page #s, no chapter headings, etc. > > > > > > I know that bookshare is fully aware of this and I hope this will come > up > > > at > > > a subsequent meeting with their engineers. > > > > > > You see, like I said in my bio, i'm not much of a reader so consequently > I > > > do not have a bookshare membership. All i do is validate. > > > But it is very disconcerting that books i submit come out in worse shape > > > after i hit the submit button then what my edited copy is here at home. > > > > > > In my opinion, that material should remain in the book. > > > For those of us who don't want it in the book, then the individual user > > > can > > > strip out the headers if they so choose. > > > But for those of us who want the complete text, we can't put the > > > headers/pagebreaks back in once they're gone, we have no recourse. > > > You can take material out of a book, but once it is gone you can't > > > manufacture it and put it back in short of having the print copy. And > at > > > that point, it would be faster to just rescan it yourself. > > > > > > > > > In closing, when Pratik uploads the book again, what's to stop the same > > > thing from happening again? > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mike Pietruk" <pietruk@xxxxxxxxx> > > > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 9:54 AM > > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: The Broker--strengths and weaknesses > > > > > > > > >> Guido > > >> > > >> I think we here have as much a philosophical question as a technical > one. > > >> As no matter what system is implemented or put in place, both on > > >> BookShare > > >> and within our ocr software, someone will find it not to their liking. > > >> On the one hand, having page numbers, sections, chapters, etc kept in > the > > >> text is invaluable. > > >> But then when too much of that info is announced, others object. > > >> My personal preference is to have more rather than less kept; and > hence, > > >> a > > >> lenient stripper; > > >> but I alredy understand the objections especially among those who do > > >> automated continuous reading, convert to mp3 and all the rest. > > >> > > >> "The Broker" should be a case study in showing just how difficult all > > >> this > > >> can be especially when dealing with automated tools and rush scanning > > >> without hand validating. > > >> Unintentionally, and this could in no way have been prevented other > than > > >> through painstaking effort which would have delayed availability of the > > >> book, valuable info was lost. > > >> In the short-run, having the book immediately available is more > important > > >> than having technical glitches dealt with. > > >> Perhaps the best solution, in a case such as this, is to have the book > > >> immediately made available with the originally scanned copy placed on > the > > >> step 1 validation page for someone, if they chose, to do the manual > > >> finetuning. > > >> Then, once validated, the improved copy would replace the original one. > > >> That would be the best of both worlds -- quick access but also > addressing > > >> the real concerns expressed by Ken that the book isn''t optimally > labeled > > >> internally. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >