[bksvol-discuss] Re: bolds, italics, ellipses

  • From: Scott Rains <scottr@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:12:00 -0700

Hi All,

My public apology to Mayrie for posting a note that I intended to be
private. For the record, Mayrie's grasp of the technical and policy world
we work in is top-notch. I count on her knowledge to guide me. The advice
she gives you here on the list is sound.

On this particular issue, as with several others, we balance what you
might call "multiple jurisdictions." What you see in the manual reflects
that balancing act. We use the manual to lay down the baseline so that
this group can mentor new volunteers on the trickier points.

Bookshare is being visited this week by the person who oversees our
federal government contract to add textbooks to the collection. She is
full of praise for the combined work of volunteers and staff. She
explicitly mentioned that she, and others in government agencies, have
noticed the improved quality of our books over the past five years. That
is a credit to each of you. It also means that we have several audiences
to please on issues that do not always have neat answers.

Sometimes standards of quality conflict. We try to balance. Some technical
solutions that are the best for members are not supported by readers'
software or hardware yet. Sometimes what works best in Braille is less
elegant in RTF or vice versa. When we are faced with conflicting or
emerging standards we defer to the DAISY standard. That is what we ask the
publishing industry to do. In the absence of a DAISY standard, keeping I
mind the current limits of readers and AT, we try to find a balance that
does not put a burden on proofreaders yet also meets the needs members.

The manual evolves. Part of the way it does so is with discussions like
these.

Scott

On 5/27/11 9:27 AM, "Debby Franson" <the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>Hi Scott and everyone!
>
>I agree that the manual isn't giving optional information.  I just wish
>the
>manual was updated to agree with transcribing rules so these discussions
>wouldn't have to come up again and again so that instructions given onlist
>and in the manual would agree.  When new volunteers come aboard, the
>discussions fly through the list again.  I appreciate it that we
>volunteers
>want to do the right thing so that the books will be well-formatted and
>accurate.
>
>I hope readers have a good reading experience no matter what method is
>chosen for reading.
>
>Debby
>
>At 04:59 PM 5/25/2011, Scott Rains wrote
>>Mayrie,
>>
>>Let me rein you in on a point below.
>>
>>We never want to be telling people that the manual is giving optional
>>activities that aren't required. Bold and italic, like font size, are
>>required.
>>
>>They may be required for different reasons. Font size is what DAISY
>>navigates on so is technically required for navigation. Italics are most
>>often in the book so required as part of our adherence to retaining the
>>integrity of the publisher's intellectual property. Bold may be that or
>>it
>>may be a way to imitate some of the font and kerning variations of a
>>print
>>book as a reading aid for sighted readers.
>>
>>This is sort of the flip side of the conversation we had recently when
>>you
>>asked me not to announce a change in the manual.
>>
>>scott
>>
>>On 5/21/11 12:27 PM, "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> >Hi Charisma,
>> >
>> >Oh, boy.  I'm going to copy a section on the ellipsis that is our
>>standard
>> >for handling them so that they represent properly in braille. This is
>>what
>> >Bookshare would like you to do, please. I'll paste it below my
>>signature.
>> >And then I'll save a copy for myself, because it's going to be a pain
>>in
>> >the
>> >neck to copy here from the braille book that I have it in that tells
>>how
>> >to
>> >format braille properly.  Tell me that you love me, because I have to
>>read
>> >with two hands, remember enough to type, type it and go back and read
>>some
>> >more.  But all of your questions about how to handle the ellipsis will
>>be
>> >answered!
>> >
>> >As for bold, it does not denote headings, the enlarged size
>> >Of the font does that.  The bolding is helpful, and we like it, but it
>> >isn't
>> >required. So you needn't go back and fix them if you don't want to.
>> >Bookshare does not require that you keep either bold or italics.  That
>> >said,
>> >as a reader yourself, with the ability to perceive italics, would you
>> >personally prefer to have it in there?  Many do, some people don't
>>care.
>> >My
>> >advice, leave what you've done be for this book, call it a learning
>> >experience, and don't remove the italics in future books.  Torture is
>>not
>> >the name of the game here, and I know that there are lots of books from
>> >which italics have been removed by folks who didn't know they mattered.
>> >
>> >Okay, I'm going to paste/type below the information on how to properly
>> >handle the ellipsis.
>> >
>> >Mayrie
>> >
>> >The ellipsis should be punctuated as if it were a word. Examples:
>> >"Fools rush in ..."
>> >
>> >"... for they shall inherit the earth"
>> > "Breathe, Mellissa. In ... and out. In ...
>> >and out."
>> >An ellipsis and a period.  Sometimes an ellipsis appears to be four
>>dots
>> >rather than three. This is because the ellipsis is either preceded or
>> >followed by a period. Since the braille period is not the same as the
>>dots
>> >of an ellipsis, it must be determined which of the four dots is the
>> >period.
>> >
>> >If the sentence is incomplete, does not contain a subject and a verb
>>and
>> >express a complete thought, then the ellipsis is taking the place of
>> >missing
>> >words within the sentence--in which the period immediately follows the
>> >ellipsis, just as it would a word. If a sentence is gramatically
>>complete,
>> >the first dot represents the period and the ellipsis represents a
>> >following
>> >missing sentence or sentences. In this case a blank cell (a space) is
>>left
>> >between the period and the following ellipsis.
>> >Example:
>> >As you can see, I have followed your career. ... As to my own ....
>>Well,
>> >you
>> >know the story.
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Charisma
>> >Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 11:24 AM
>> >To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] bolds, italics, ellipses
>> >
>> >In the book I just scanned, from which I erroneously erased all italics
>> >and
>> >bolds, the bolds were found in the glossary, for each new word.
>> >
>> >Ought I to have left those bolds? I thought anything that was in bold
>> >indicated to the converter that that was a heading? Of course, in this
>> >case,
>> >perhaps each new word in the glossary ought to be it's own heading? I
>> >already had the beginning of the Glossary at font point 16.
>> >I wonder now if I ought to have made each word in the glossary font
>>point
>> >14, each word a subheading.
>> >
>> >OK, and since I erased every last italic in this 255+ page book, ought
>>I
>> >to
>> >go back and replace them all? I will because I want the book to be
>>perfect
>> >but do I NEED to? (can you guess how I am hoping?  lol)
>> >
>> >Finally, ellipses.  I have a question about your experiences. All
>>ellipses
>> >in these examples are three dots, not spaces between them. On my Victor
>> >Reader Stream, Set-up #1  If there is a word, then an ellipsis right up
>> >against it, then a space, then the next word, it reads fine; I never
>>know
>> >there is an ellipsis there.
>> >Set-up #2 If there is a word, then a space, then the ellipsis, then a
>> >space,
>> >then the next word, I hear" dot dot dot".
>> >Set-up #3 If there is a word and either a space or no space, then an
>> >ellipsis then no space then the next word, if that next word has an
>> >apostrophe it will not read properly. That is, if the ellipsis pushes
>>up
>> >against the word God's (like this ",,,God's"), my reader will read
>>that as
>> >"dot dot dot God s"
>> >
>> >I cannot remember which book it was that was doing this so I can't
>> >doublecheck it in Victor Reader Soft but I am pretty sure these
>>problems
>> >are
>> >the same in there.
>> >
>> >My TextAloud does not care as far as #3 goes--it does not neglect
>> >apostrophes.
>> >
>> >Also, hate hate hate four dot ellipses. Period OR ellipsis, author
>>people,
>> >not period AND ellipsis. I made an executive decision and made half 4
>>dot
>> >and half 3 dot int eh 255+ page book I just did. Which shall I fix?
>> >
>> >Charisma
>> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
>> >bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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>> >of
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>> >
>> > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
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>>line.
>> >
>> >
>>
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>
>--
>                  
>mailto:<the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>--
>
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