[bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
- From: "Evan Reese" <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 11:04:06 -0700
Thanks, Donna. I also do as much cleanup as I can. I read through "the entire
text of the print edition" as APH puts it, and I fix everything I notice. I am
not a professional proofreader, though, so some things get by me. Also, when I
am enjoying a book, I sometimes don't notice minor typos. My brain seems to
sometimes make corrections in what I read that it doesn't tell me about, in a
manner of speaking. <smile> But I usually get most stuff.
After reading some of the discussion this morning, I decided to download
another book I had submitted. The book contains a novel and some short
stories, and I was worried that the stripper might have removed the titles of
the stories, as they appear in the middle of the page, with nothing above them.
Luckily, the story titles were not removed, which is confusing, because such
things as "Part One" and "Part Two" were removed, and they also appear in the
middle of the page. The chapter headings were also removed, but since the
chapter and parts all have titles, readers will at least know that they are
starting a new section of some kind. Also, the page break right above the
title is a pretty good indicator of a new chapter or part. Why it removes some
headers like part headers which are in the middle of the page, but not the
story titles which are also in the middle of the page is mystifying to me.
Removing consistent, repetetive text at the top of each page I can understand.
But removing items dozens of pages apart just because they happen to be the
first thing on the page, and not even doing that consistently is just goofy. I
thought that by removing headers, I would be making life easier for everyone -
especially since scanners - mine at least - can garble them and so make them
not entirely consistent throughout. But it appears that by removing them, I
have negatively affected the quality of my submissions, which I had hoped would
be great. At least the text is great, still. I can be thankful for that at
least. But now, I have to do more work to get around something someone thought
was a "bonus"? Oh, brother! If it removes consistent text at the top of each
page, and it doesn't find any, why doesn't it just go to sleep? It appears
that whether or not I remove headers, I gotta add them to the beginnings of
chapters and parts or whatever stuff I want to make sure doesn't get munched.
I will try to remember that in the future. Can I put in any text I want at the
top of the page to preserve the chapter headers?, such as "Remove this, not the
chapter header you stupid software."? <lol>
----- Original Message -----
From: Donna Smith
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Hi Evan and others following this thread.
I apologize for being the one to open this particular can of worms. Every
time we've had this discussion on the list, it has brought up these same
issues. There is no official requirement for this from BookShare. The goal is
still to get as many books as possible in the collection following the absolute
guidelines regarding copyright laws as amended, and the concern of quality is
next in line with the understanding that it is possible to rate books as fair,
good or excellent.
However, many of us who do the work have our own standards of quality for our
submissions and so we've come up with tips for how to get the best quality
possible. These standards, and they vary from volunteer to volunteer, are not
required by anyone. It's just a self-imposed standard.
Personally, when I submit a book, I try to do as much clean-up as possible so
that the validator has an easy job. Actually, I try to submit the book in a
form I'd not mind reading. I knew from previous discussions on this list that
the BS software has little quirks that we can accommodate by creating a
particular format, though I had forgotten what that was specifically. I choose
to follow this pattern of blank line, page number, blank line, text, or, false
header, blank line, chapter heading, blank line text, because it will produce a
better end result for all formats, but there is no requirement to do so.
Volunteers can do as much as they are comfortable with doing both as submitters
and validators, and the addition to the collection is appreciated by all.
Hope this helps to explain it all a bit. Keep on scanning and keep up the
good work!
Peace and Hope,
Donna
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From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Evan Reese
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 11:17 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Ok, now I'm more confused than ever. If I strip the headings manually, then
why does the stripper need something to strip. If I don't strip them, then I
need to make them consistent so the stripper can strip them correctly? But if
I do strip them, then I need to put a fake one at the beginning of each chapter
so the chapter heading doesn't get stripped? Do I have this all correct?
Wouldn't it be a lot simpler just to not strip anything? Aren't we supposed -
ideally anyhow - to be replicating the original book, in which there is in fact
a heading at the top of each page, except on those which begin a chapter. This
makes a lot of extra work and complexity and a reduction of quality for those
who can't keep straight all the persnickety demands of the Bookshare software,
or who don't have the time to go through and fix everything just right so that
other readers can have a decent reading experience. I would say, just drop the
whole stripping thing and make life simpler for everyone and then we won't have
these quality problems.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald Hovas
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:18 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Donna,
1.. Yes, put a blank line before and after the page number when the page
number is in the header as well as a blank line at the bottom of the page. I'm
not sure if the blank line is necessary between the page number and the text,
but I can say that putting one after the header does work well. If you leave
the blank lines at the top and bottom of the pages off, then some odd things
will happen to the page numbers when the HTML file is created. The page
numbers end up as part of a paragraph instead of on a separate line.
Example of how the page should look...
[Page Break]
95
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
2.. Yes, put a blank line between the chapter heading and the first line
of text. Again, I don't know that this is necessary, but it does work well,
and some people have said that it is necessary.
3. Yes, you need to give the Stripper something to strip other than the
chapter heading or the chapter heading will be stripped. The easiest thing to
do when page numbers are normally at the top of pages except on pages where a
chapter begins is to move the page number from the bottom of the page to the
top. If page numbers are always at the bottom of the page, then place a false
header above the chapter heading. Using the title works well, and it won't
look as odd if the Stripper fails to strip it for some odd reason. It helps to
strip all of the real headers manually since its easier to strip them yourself
than to insure that they are consistent so that the Stripper will remove them
all, but if you do leave them in, then just follow the pattern of the headers
and put whatever header would normally appear on the top of that page above the
chapter heading.
Examples of how pages should look...
[Page Break]
95
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
[Page Break]
The Firm
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
95
[Page Break]
Or if the page would normally contain the author's name instead of the
title...
[Page Break]
John Grisham
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
I can't say that these are the only ways to do it, but I've had excellent
results with these approaches.
HTH
Gerald
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From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Donna Smith
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 5:41 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Hi all.
I hesitate to ask this question, but I can't find the answer on any of the
official or unofficial sites giving tips to scanners.
Did we ever determine absolutely what should be done to protect page
numbers and chapter headings? What I want to know is:
1.. At the top of each page, do I need to put a blank line before and/or
after the page number?
2.. For chapter numbers/titles that appear at the top of the page, do I
put a blank line before and/or after it?
3.. Is it necessary to have something at the top of the page for the
BookShare stripper to strip?
I spend a good bit of time cleaning up each scan regarding page numbers,
chapter headings and stripping out unwanted headers. I'm trying to do it in
such a way that it will result in the best book in the finished product.
I really, really hope that an answer has been found to this question and
that I'm not opening up the can of worms we've had before about the different
perceptions of what might work. <smile>
Thanks.
Peace and Hope,
Donna
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