[bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
- From: "Donna Smith" <donnafsmith@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 14:23:15 -0400
Yes, I suppose you could put in "Strip this, sucker," but then if it didn't
strip it, readers who know nothing about the scanning validating processes
might really be confused. <big grin> I just write out the title of the
book, add a blank line, copy it to my clipboard and then paste it in
whenever I come across a chapter heading. It's really not very much work.
Some of the more techno-savvy on this list have suggested ways to improve
the stripper, but that goes over my head pretty quickly, and at any rate, BS
hasn't made changes to it as of yet. I still think it is best to manually
strip the junk headers and protect the page numbers. Again, it's whatever
you're comfortable doing.
BTW, I have the same problem when actually reading a book instead of just
scrolling through for things to correct. I've been reading scanned text
since the Easy Scan days, (that's pre-OpenBook for you youngsters out
there), and my brain is very good at transposing scan junk into real
English. It's kind of scary, really. <smile>
Donna
_____
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Evan Reese
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 2:04 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Thanks, Donna. I also do as much cleanup as I can. I read through "the
entire text of the print edition" as APH puts it, and I fix everything I
notice. I am not a professional proofreader, though, so some things get by
me. Also, when I am enjoying a book, I sometimes don't notice minor typos.
My brain seems to sometimes make corrections in what I read that it doesn't
tell me about, in a manner of speaking. <smile> But I usually get most
stuff.
After reading some of the discussion this morning, I decided to download
another book I had submitted. The book contains a novel and some short
stories, and I was worried that the stripper might have removed the titles
of the stories, as they appear in the middle of the page, with nothing above
them. Luckily, the story titles were not removed, which is confusing,
because such things as "Part One" and "Part Two" were removed, and they also
appear in the middle of the page. The chapter headings were also removed,
but since the chapter and parts all have titles, readers will at least know
that they are starting a new section of some kind. Also, the page break
right above the title is a pretty good indicator of a new chapter or part.
Why it removes some headers like part headers which are in the middle of the
page, but not the story titles which are also in the middle of the page is
mystifying to me. Removing consistent, repetetive text at the top of each
page I can understand. But removing items dozens of pages apart just
because they happen to be the first thing on the page, and not even doing
that consistently is just goofy. I thought that by removing headers, I
would be making life easier for everyone - especially since scanners - mine
at least - can garble them and so make them not entirely consistent
throughout. But it appears that by removing them, I have negatively
affected the quality of my submissions, which I had hoped would be great.
At least the text is great, still. I can be thankful for that at least.
But now, I have to do more work to get around something someone thought was
a "bonus"? Oh, brother! If it removes consistent text at the top of each
page, and it doesn't find any, why doesn't it just go to sleep? It appears
that whether or not I remove headers, I gotta add them to the beginnings of
chapters and parts or whatever stuff I want to make sure doesn't get
munched. I will try to remember that in the future. Can I put in any text
I want at the top of the page to preserve the chapter headers?, such as
"Remove this, not the chapter header you stupid software."? <lol>
----- Original Message -----
From: Donna <mailto:donnafsmith@xxxxxxxxxxx> Smith
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Hi Evan and others following this thread.
I apologize for being the one to open this particular can of worms. Every
time we've had this discussion on the list, it has brought up these same
issues. There is no official requirement for this from BookShare. The goal
is still to get as many books as possible in the collection following the
absolute guidelines regarding copyright laws as amended, and the concern of
quality is next in line with the understanding that it is possible to rate
books as fair, good or excellent.
However, many of us who do the work have our own standards of quality for
our submissions and so we've come up with tips for how to get the best
quality possible. These standards, and they vary from volunteer to
volunteer, are not required by anyone. It's just a self-imposed standard.
Personally, when I submit a book, I try to do as much clean-up as possible
so that the validator has an easy job. Actually, I try to submit the book
in a form I'd not mind reading. I knew from previous discussions on this
list that the BS software has little quirks that we can accommodate by
creating a particular format, though I had forgotten what that was
specifically. I choose to follow this pattern of blank line, page number,
blank line, text, or, false header, blank line, chapter heading, blank line
text, because it will produce a better end result for all formats, but there
is no requirement to do so. Volunteers can do as much as they are
comfortable with doing both as submitters and validators, and the addition
to the collection is appreciated by all.
Hope this helps to explain it all a bit. Keep on scanning and keep up the
good work!
Peace and Hope,
Donna
_____
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Evan Reese
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 11:17 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Ok, now I'm more confused than ever. If I strip the headings manually, then
why does the stripper need something to strip. If I don't strip them, then
I need to make them consistent so the stripper can strip them correctly?
But if I do strip them, then I need to put a fake one at the beginning of
each chapter so the chapter heading doesn't get stripped? Do I have this
all correct? Wouldn't it be a lot simpler just to not strip anything?
Aren't we supposed - ideally anyhow - to be replicating the original book,
in which there is in fact a heading at the top of each page, except on those
which begin a chapter. This makes a lot of extra work and complexity and a
reduction of quality for those who can't keep straight all the persnickety
demands of the Bookshare software, or who don't have the time to go through
and fix everything just right so that other readers can have a decent
reading experience. I would say, just drop the whole stripping thing and
make life simpler for everyone and then we won't have these quality
problems.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerald <mailto:GeraldHovas@xxxxxxxxxxx> Hovas
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:18 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Donna,
1. Yes, put a blank line before and after the page number when the page
number is in the header as well as a blank line at the bottom of the page.
I'm not sure if the blank line is necessary between the page number and the
text, but I can say that putting one after the header does work well. If
you leave the blank lines at the top and bottom of the pages off, then some
odd things will happen to the page numbers when the HTML file is created.
The page numbers end up as part of a paragraph instead of on a separate
line.
Example of how the page should look...
[Page Break]
95
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
2. Yes, put a blank line between the chapter heading and the first line
of text. Again, I don't know that this is necessary, but it does work well,
and some people have said that it is necessary.
3. Yes, you need to give the Stripper something to strip other than the
chapter heading or the chapter heading will be stripped. The easiest thing
to do when page numbers are normally at the top of pages except on pages
where a chapter begins is to move the page number from the bottom of the
page to the top. If page numbers are always at the bottom of the page, then
place a false header above the chapter heading. Using the title works well,
and it won't look as odd if the Stripper fails to strip it for some odd
reason. It helps to strip all of the real headers manually since its easier
to strip them yourself than to insure that they are consistent so that the
Stripper will remove them all, but if you do leave them in, then just follow
the pattern of the headers and put whatever header would normally appear on
the top of that page above the chapter heading.
Examples of how pages should look...
[Page Break]
95
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
[Page Break]
The Firm
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
95
[Page Break]
Or if the page would normally contain the author's name instead of the
title...
[Page Break]
John Grisham
Chapter Seven
.
.
.
text
.
.
.
[Page Break]
I can't say that these are the only ways to do it, but I've had excellent
results with these approaches.
HTH
Gerald
_____
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Donna Smith
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 5:41 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Protecting page numbers and chapter headings
Hi all.
I hesitate to ask this question, but I can't find the answer on any of the
official or unofficial sites giving tips to scanners.
Did we ever determine absolutely what should be done to protect page numbers
and chapter headings? What I want to know is:
1. At the top of each page, do I need to put a blank line before and/or
after the page number?
2. For chapter numbers/titles that appear at the top of the page, do I
put a blank line before and/or after it?
3. Is it necessary to have something at the top of the page for the
BookShare stripper to strip?
I spend a good bit of time cleaning up each scan regarding page numbers,
chapter headings and stripping out unwanted headers. I'm trying to do it in
such a way that it will result in the best book in the finished product.
I really, really hope that an answer has been found to this question and
that I'm not opening up the can of worms we've had before about the
different perceptions of what might work. <smile>
Thanks.
Peace and Hope,
Donna
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