[bksvol-discuss] Re: Fractions in bookshare files for Braille readers
- From: Valerie Maples <vlmaples@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:35:42 -0500
Hi, Lori!
I just want to clarify, I will not quit proofing; I would just not be up to
doing a cookbook if I had to replace all the blanks in mixed fractions with
hyphens. I would be utterly mired in it. I only commented since Kim said it
was annoying and I believe she is the one who requested Bakewise. I wrote
Melissa and hopefully they would consider having three stages for Cookbooks; a
scanner a sighted proofreader and then allowing that product to be proofed by a
Braille reader to ensure both copies could meet needs. In other owrds, one
format for Braille readers and the other for sighted.
Cookbooks can be so incredibly tough already, having to modify something that
cannot safely be done universally would put a tremendous burden on a
proofreader. I hear both parties and this seems to be a first case I see where
it is simply too much to ask of a proofreader.
Valerie
On Jun 21, 2010, at 3:06 PM, Lori Castner wrote:
> Mayrie, No jumping! I agree wholeheartedly with your suggestion.
>
> I have tons of brailled recipes both in braille magazines and in braille
> cookbooks. Looking at some transcribed in 1981, 1991 and 2008, all have a
> hyphen between the whole number and the fraction.
> I have also looked at and brailled for my own use a huge number of online
> recipes; those when viewed on the screen do not have a hyphen between the
> whole number and the fraction.
> It may be proper braille to include the hyphen, but if doing so means losing
> an excellent proofreader of recipes like Valerie then I would give up the
> hyphen!
>
> Lori C.
>
> It may in fact be proper braille to
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 10:06 AM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Fractions in bookshare files for Braille readers
>
>
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> Again, I went to the braille transcription manual. And, in proper literary
>> braille, fractions are written with a hyphen between the whole number and
>> the fraction. I did not seek out an accurate resource for how to properly
>> represent mixed numbers in literary print. But I do believe that Valerie is
>> correct that a space should separate whole numbers from fractions.
>>
>> For me, there is a problem with this. I do want braille readers to see
>> accurate braille. But this is not the accurate expression for print
>> fractions to be represented. So, in our efforts to make sure that kids see
>> accurately rendered books, which do we do?
>>
>> Now, before you all jump on me about this, reminding me that I opted to
>> follow braille code with em dashes and elipsis, I will respectfully remind
>> you that the representation of those things in print is optional so what
>> I've chosen to support is not inaccurate in either print or braille.
>>
>> So, I think on this one, I have to say I think this is a personal
>> preference. The braille translator will represent exactly whichever manner
>> of representing fractions as it is intended to be represented. So, this is
>> just me, I think I'd recommend that each person follow his or her own
>> beliefs on this one. Because, in this instance, accurate braille
>> representation will result in inaccurate print representation. And the
>> opposite is also true.
>>
>> Now we all know what is accurate in both print and braille, and can choose.
>>
>> I personally am leaning toward using a space rather than a hyphen to
>> separate fractions from the whole numbers to which they are attached. There
>> are more print reading children using bookshare, and I've seen older cook
>> books in braille that used the space to separate the whole numbers from the
>> fraction. So, the braille code may have changed at some point.
>>
>> In any case, this is just my personal preference, and I'd appreciate it if
>> no one would jump on me for having one. I would really love it if we could
>> express fractions accurately for everyone. I just don't see that that can
>> be done easily. So, each of us needs to choose what we think is best to do.
>>
>> Okay, shutting up now. Just wanted you all to know that the braille
>> transcription manual, unfortunately, does tell us to use the hyphen between
>> whole numbers and their attached fractions, and that print disagrees.
>>
>> Have a great day, everyone!
>>
>> Mayrie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ann Parsons
>> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 4:49 AM
>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Fractions in bookshare files for Braille
>> readers
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> No, haven't been reading this thread, but the correct way to write a
>> compound fraction, that's what they're called, folks, is to use a dash to
>> indicate that it is one compound fraction. In braille this is what is done.
>> Since braille is direct reflection of what is done in print, I would benture
>> to say that 1-1/2 is correct as opposed to 1 1/2. The space is incorrect!
>> In print, the 1/2 part of the fraction is actually printed vertically. The
>> one is on top, in super script and is linked vertically to the two by a
>> slash, a diagonal line. In order for the fraction, compound or otherwise to
>> come out right in braille, you must
>> write the numerator, then a slash and then the denominator. Yeah,
>> yeah, yeah, terminology again, but it am correct. If we don't
>> standardize, then braille readers will be all bolixed up.
>>
>> You cannot put in something you think is just easier for you. You have
>> to put in what is right, what is standard and what the book says. I
>> may think that writing a phone number is easier when I write 585-922-3434,
>> but that is *not* how it is done in the sighted world and it is not standard
>> and I can't use it in a Bookshare book. I have to, not should but have to
>> write (585) 922-3434, not any other format just because I think it is easier
>> for me.
>>
>> Ann P.
>>
>>
>> Original message:
>>> Hi, Kim!
>>
>>> I didn't think we were allowed to alter text by inserting hyphens. I
>>> personally feel it reads easier with a space between the whole number
>>> and fraction and unless mandated, would NEVER take the time to insert
>>> hyphens in mixed fractions. So, be forewarned if it is a pet peeve of
>>> yours that you will not like my submission after proofreading Bakewise.
>>
>>> Valerie
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 20, 2010, at 4:04 AM, Kim Friedman wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi, Pam I would write 1/2 or 1/4 or 1-1/8. When I see fractions, the
>>> slash goes between the numerator and the denominator without spaces.
>>> Hope this helps. Regards, Kim Friedman. P.S.: One of my pet peeves is
>>> seeing a mixed fraction (such as 1-1/2 being written 1 1/2. K.
>>
>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> <mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pamela Hoffard
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 6:13 PM
>>> To: book list
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Fractions in bookshare files for Braille readers
>>
>>> Hey all,
>>
>>> I'm coming across a bunch of fractions for recipes in the book that I'm
>>> proofing. For Braille readers, is the 1 / 2 format better than the
>>> symbol 1 over 2 in one individual space (sorry I can't make this symbol
>>> in e-mail). Any preference?
>>
>>> Thanks for your thoughts,
>>
>>> Pam
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> --
>> Ann K. Parsons
>> Portal Tutoring
>> EMAIL: akp@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info
>> Skype: Putertutor
>>
>> "All that is gold does not glitter,
>> Not all those who wander are lost."
>>
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