The cookbooks done recently are so far superior to those done earlier that I don't mind at all entering my own hyphens in the braille on my notetaker. And NLS really has a great cookbook collection available in web braille. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 1:44 PMSubject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Fractions in bookshare files for Braille readers
Hi Maureen,Actually, braille readers are in a serious minority. Print disabled people who are dyslexic, or who have other disabilities who still use print are inthe vast majority. Also, in print cookbooks, hyphens are not used. What this means is that a person proofreading a cookbook would have to make literally potentiallythousands of alterations to make the book follow the braille code. And thenthe book would not be standard print, and we would, going against the agreement that allows us to use books for Bookshare, be breaking the copyright agreement established.I really like Melissa's idea that, if possible, the braille translator couldbe instructed/coded to insert that hyphen only in the brf files. Unfortunately, having absolutely no knowledge of what would be involved in making such an alteration to what the braille translator does, I have no idea whether this is a possibility that is practical. Sorry, I'm not seeming very hopeful in this arena. I'd love a solution to this problem that would cause no problem for anyone on any level. Mayrie -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Maureen PranghoferSent: Monday, June 21, 2010 11:58 AM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Fractions in bookshare files for Braille readers Hi MayrieI have a question, since it is clear that when listening to books when thereis a space between the whole and mixed number it sometimes still says it wrong. In Braille, as you pointed out, there is a hyphon, how many peopleusing Bookshare are seeing what is actual in print? I would think not thatmany but I may be very wrong, perhaps there are people who enlarge text or something. In either case wouldn't it make the most sense to use the hyphon, then, even though it doesn't follow what is in print? Thanks Maureen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mayrie ReNae" <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 12:06 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Fractions in bookshare files for Braille readersHi Everyone, Again, I went to the braille transcription manual. And, in proper literary braille, fractions are written with a hyphen between the whole number and the fraction. I did not seek out an accurate resource for how to properly represent mixed numbers in literary print. But I do believe that Valerie is correct that a space should separate whole numbers from fractions. For me, there is a problem with this. I do want braille readers to see accurate braille. But this is not the accurate expression for print fractions to be represented. So, in our efforts to make sure that kids see accurately rendered books, which do we do? Now, before you all jump on me about this, reminding me that I opted to follow braille code with em dashes and elipsis, I will respectfully remind you that the representation of those things in print is optional so what I've chosen to support is not inaccurate in either printor braille.So, I think on this one, I have to say I think this is a personal preference. The braille translator will represent exactly whichever manner of representing fractions as it is intended to be represented. So, this is just me, I think I'd recommend that each person follow his or her own beliefs on this one. Because, in this instance, accurate braille representation will result in inaccurate print representation. And the opposite is also true. Now we all know what is accurate in both print and braille, and can choose. I personally am leaning toward using a space rather than a hyphen to separate fractions from the whole numbers to which they are attached. There are more print reading children using bookshare, and I've seen older cook books in braille that used the space to separate the whole numbers from the fraction. So, the braille code may have changed at some point. In any case, this is just my personal preference, and I'd appreciate it if no one would jump on me for having one. I would really love it if we could express fractions accurately for everyone. I just don't see that that can be done easily. So, each of us needs to choose what we think is best to do. Okay, shutting up now. Just wanted you all to know that the braille transcription manual, unfortunately, does tell us to use the hyphen between whole numbers and their attached fractions, and that print disagrees. Have a great day, everyone! Mayrie -----Original Message----- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ann Parsons Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 4:49 AM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Fractions in bookshare files for Braille readers Hi all, No, haven't been reading this thread, but the correct way to write a compound fraction, that's what they're called, folks, is to use a dash to indicate that it is one compound fraction. In braille this is what is done. Since braille is direct reflection of what is done in print, I would benture to say that 1-1/2 is correct as opposed to 1 1/2. The space is incorrect! In print, the 1/2 part of the fraction is actually printed vertically. The one is on top, in super script and is linked vertically to the two by a slash, a diagonal line. In order for the fraction, compound or otherwise to come out right in braille, you must write the numerator, then a slash and then the denominator. Yeah, yeah, yeah, terminology again, but it am correct. If we don't standardize, then braille readers will be all bolixed up. You cannot put in something you think is just easier for you. You have to put in what is right, what is standard and what the book says. I may think that writing a phone number is easier when I write 585-922-3434, but that is *not* how it is done in the sighted world and it is not standard and I can't use it in a Bookshare book. I have to, not should but have to write (585) 922-3434, not any other format just because I think it is easier for me. Ann P. Original message:Hi, Kim!I didn't think we were allowed to alter text by inserting hyphens. I personally feel it reads easier with a space between the whole number and fraction and unless mandated, would NEVER take the time to insert hyphens in mixed fractions. So, be forewarned if it is a pet peeve of yours that you will not like my submission after proofreading Bakewise.ValerieOn Jun 20, 2010, at 4:04 AM, Kim Friedman wrote:Hi, Pam I would write 1/2 or 1/4 or 1-1/8. When I see fractions, the slash goes between the numerator and the denominator without spaces. Hope this helps. Regards, Kim Friedman. P.S.: One of my pet peeves is seeing a mixed fraction (such as 1-1/2 being written 1 1/2. K.--------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pamela Hoffard Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 6:13 PM To: book list Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Fractions in bookshare files for Braille readersHey all,I'm coming across a bunch of fractions for recipes in the book that I'm proofing. For Braille readers, is the 1 / 2 format better than the symbol 1 over 2 in one individual space (sorry I can't make this symbol in e-mail). Any preference?Thanks for your thoughts,Pam__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5210 (20100619) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5210 (20100619) __________The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com/>-- Ann K. Parsons Portal Tutoring EMAIL: akp@xxxxxxxxxxxx web site: http://www.portaltutoring.info Skype: Putertutor "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost." Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. 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