[bksvol-discuss] Re: Are volunteers really that important anymore?
- From: Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:33:47 EDT
As a blind person I can assure you, Cindy, that blind people do use Daisy.
The main advantage to it is that it is a lot easier to navigate around the
book from chapter to chapter or section to section. Personally, even though I
have downloaded a number of Daisy books, I do not make much use of the
Daisy features because I normally just read a book from start to finish. In
fact, I now always download a book directly to my Victor Reader Stream and I
can
put either the entire Daisy book in my DTB folder or the XML file into my
Text folder. Any mor I usually dispense with all the files except the XML
file because I like the feature in the text folder that tells me what
percentage through the book I am. The DTB folder only lets me know what page I
am on.
Unfortunately, there have been times that I wanted to go back and check
something and have found myself wishing that I had used the Daisy version after
all. Then when I decide that I have learned my lesson I will use the entire
Daisy file the next time and make my way through the entire book without
having to use the Daisy navigation features even once.
"Can a
nation be free if it oppresses other nations? It cannot." Vladimir Lenin
The Militant: http://www.themilitant.com Pathfinder Press:
http://www.pathfinderpress.com
Granma International: http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
_
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Subj:
[bksvol-discuss] Re: Are volunteers really that important anymore?
Date:
8/27/2009 6:41:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From:
popularplace@xxxxxxxxx
Reply-to:
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To:
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent from the Internet
(Details)
table end
I'm curious. Don't blind people use Daisy as well as or instead of Braille?
I was under the impression (possibly the mis-impression) that that was
how
people listened to the books on bookshare
Cindy
Wish List (i.e., books wanted added to the collection) and
books-being-scanned list available at sites below
Wish List: https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Bookshare+Wish+List
Books Being Scanned List:
https://wiki.benetech.org/display/BSO/Books+Being+Scanned+List
--- On Thu, 8/27/09, Denise Thompson <deniset@xxxxxxx> wrote:
block quote
From: Denise Thompson <deniset@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Are volunteers really that important anymore?
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 2:37 PM
Judy
I'm behind the times. I didn't realize BS had broadened it's focus. I'm
glad if it benefits you. I just don't want people who are blind to get lost in
the process since that was the original reason for BS's existance. Right
now all I know is that its getting harder for us to contribute. Probably we've
gone about as far as we can with this discussion on the list. Hopefully BS
staff are listening and will consider what has been said.
Denise
At 12:38 PM 8/27/2009, you wrote:
> Denise, you asked about who is benefiting from all the changes. I can
certainly understand your frustration. smile
>
> I think that many of the the changes are coming about because Bookshare's
members are expanding to include more disabled individuals like myself who
are fully sighted but have other serious disabilities that prevent us from
reading printed books.
>
> A bookshare book that "sounds" fine to a blind individual is often
virtually unreadable to a sighted disabled person who relies on visually
reading
the
book from their computer screen.
>
> Imagine listening to a book where the narrator is randomly shouting one
word, whispering the next, or stopping in the middle of a sentence then
starting
again as if it were a new sentence. It would be an unpleasant experience to
have to read books if this was the norm.
>
> That's the equivalent of what it's like to visually read a book that
hasn't had the formatting of a book cleaned up in the way that's now being
suggested.
smile.
>
> Things in written text that don't make a difference to a blind reader
make an enormous difference to a sighted disabled reader. For example, having
the chapter titles in larger fonts makes a huge difference in readability
for visual navigation, too, not just for DAISY navigation.
>
> One thing that doesn't make much difference to me at least, however, is
the inclusion of images in fiction books, as least those that are geared
towards
a young adult or adult audience. They're nice to have, sort of like having
a narrator who can speak in different accents for different characters in a
book, but not necessary. smile. The same might be true of
mostly-picture-books for children, but I can't speak to that.
>
> I hope that gives at peek into why I believe some of the changes are
happening. smile.
>
> Judy s.
>
>
> Denise Thompson wrote:
>> I think we have noticed it, but no one right now is prepared to deal
with it since it was once the foundation of the organization itself. It was one
of the big draws in the beginning which led to many news stories and
funding.
>> The other issue for me is who is benefitting from all the changes. I
mean the changes in terms of the correct preciseness of books scanned now.
Certainly
phe push to get rid of garbled text and scannos is wonderful and can easily
be done today with impprooved OCR software. The other things though I
wonder.
It's true that I read in the Daisy format very seldom. Mostly I quickly
convert my books to text and put them on my phone to read. When I'm listening
to
a book, it sounds exactly the same to me if it has paragraph marks at the
end of each line or double paragraph marks for real paragraphs. It sounds the
same if chapter titles are in 16 point font or in 12 point. The only real
factor that affects me as a blind person listening to the book is the
cleanness
of the scan. I know that the other factors mentioned work better in a Daisy
translation and create better divisions on a daisy player. Perhaps for text
books this is more important, but for reading for pleasure, it makes no
difference in listening, but makes a whole lot of difference in scanning,
proofing
and getting a book accepted into the library.
>> My last thought on this is a concern about pictures. I foresee a time
when people who are blind will no longer be able to scan because it will
become
important that the pictures be included. Now I go through the new books and
there is the added choice of downloading daisy with images. In the last
book
I scanned I was aware there were some pictures, but I'm not able to really
deal with them because I can't tell how over all they are affecting the page
lay out. I deleted them when I knew one was there. I knew one was there
primarily by accident if it was at the top of the page as I checked for a
paragraph
mark I would be told a picture was there. I don't know if I got them all or
if some still remained. The book was accepted, but I don't know what the
proofer
had to do in order to make that happened. I may not be expressing myself
well, but its almost now as if we're creating books that would pass in the
sighted
world with all the same bells and whistles. It seems that maybe we're
loosing sight of the mission a bit. But, again, I guess if the books can be done
with all the bells and whistles more quickly without us and we still get
the benefit of the greater numbers, maybe it doesn't matter.
>> Denise
>>
>>
>> At 10:36 AM 8/27/2009, you wrote:
>>> If I had a stack of those gay and lesbian books on hand I can imagine
that I might send them off to Bookshare and I might be out the postage and
the
cost of the books if I had bought them, but I would also be out many hours
of volunteer labor to get them into the collection. I am not particularly
interested
in children's picture books, so I have not downloaded any, but I would
think that outsourcers could handle them. I think that Pavi, in fact, said that
the more difficult books have priority for being outsourced. The main thing
I have noticed, though, is that the proportion of books added to the
collection
by means other than volunteers is now considerably greater than the
proportion added by volunteers and that proportion is growing. Also, a good
many
books
already in the collection by means of volunteers are being replaced by
other means. Furthermore, the proportion that are being added by volunteers
could
, in most cases, be done faster and just as easily or more easily, by those
other means. No one has mentioned it. In fact, the Bookshare staff is
proceeding
away with more and more innovations for volunteers. What I was really
wondering is whether volunteering is becoming obsolete and nobody has noticed
it.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Can a nation be free if it oppresses other nations? It cannot."
Vladimir Lenin
>>>
>>> The Militant:
http://www.themilitant.com
<http://wwww.themilitant.com
>Pathfinder Press:
http://www.pathfinderpress.com
>>> Granma International:
http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>>> _
>>>
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>>> Subj:Â
>>> [bksvol-discuss] Re: Are volunteers really that important anymore?  Â
>>> Date:Â
>>> 8/27/2009 4:25:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time Â
>>> From:Â
>>>
rwiley@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
 Â
>>> Reply-to:Â
>>>
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
 Â
>>> To:Â
>>>
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
 Â
>>> Sent from the Internet
>>> (Details)Â
>>> table end
>>>
>>> Roger, this is an excellent summary of some of the things I have also
been thinking.Â
>>>
>>> When I first started with bookshare a couple of years ago, there were
tons of books whose rating was fair, and in most cases that designation was
kind.
>>> But, the books were available, and for a group starving for reading
material, they were great to have. Â
>>>
>>> However, our tastes--and our tolerances--have improved. Where once we
would accept day-old bread because we were starving, we now want freshly
baked
goods.
>>> (Wow, I must be hungry).Â
>>>
>>> So, I think your comments about the changing role of the volunteer are
right on target. There will always be a need for volunteers to do the
specialty
books
>>> (such as children's books with pictures), and books of special
interest. I can't imagine NLS having a whole category of gay and lesbian books,
nor
can
>>> I imagine the department of education wanting their money going toward
that end. (I'm not being critical, just can't imagine it happening.) But, we
volunteers
>>> can make it happen. We can also put books in the collection from those
publishers who won't cooperate with us (after all, we have the law on our
side).Â
>>>
>>> In short, I see the role of the volunteer changing, but not going away
any time soon.Â
>>>
>>> There's an old Chinese proverb that says "may you live in interesting
times." I've always wondered whether that was a curse, challenge or a
blessing.
Whatever
>>> it is, we live in very interesting times with bookshare.Â
>>>
>>> BobÂ
>>>
>>> “We know the future will outlast all of us, but I believe that all
of us will live on in the future we make,�
>>> Senator Edward M. Kennedy
>>>
>>> block quote
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> From:
>>>
Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx
>>>
>>> To:
>>>
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:22 PM
>>>
>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Are volunteers really that important anymore?
>>>
>>> I am not taking a position one way or another. I just thought I would
express some thoughts and questions that have been running through my mind. I
have
>>> been involved with Bookshare for just a little over a year now and have
seen some considerable changes. I have also surmised changes that came
about
before
>>> I came along. As I understand it the name Bookshare was literal in the
beginning. That is, people posted the books they had scanned for themselves
and
>>> actually shared them with others who were posting books they had
scanned for themselves. That would have meant that the only source of books
Bookshare
>>> had for the most part was from the volunteers. Since then, though,
publishers have come to contribute large numbers of books. Bookshare is
acquiring
books
>>> from donations or from buying them and scanning them in house or
outsourcing them. It actually appears that the number of books added to the
collection
>>> by means other than volunteers is considerably greater than those added
by the volunteers. I have noticed other things being done that volunteers
do
that
>>> may be being done more prolifically by other means than by volunteers.
On more than one occasion now I have made a quality report for a book that
contained
>>> an error or errors. To my surprise the whole entire book was promptly
replaced by an outsourcer. That makes me wonder why we should bother with
scanning
>>> a BSO. Volunteers are more and more frequently finding that the books
they intend to scan are being added by outsourcers before the volunteer get a
chance
>>> to add it. Yes, that means that the volunteer can work on something
else, but it still remains that work that would have been done by a volunteer
is
being
>>> done otherwise. We were asked for some suggestions about gaps in the
collection and I made a suggestion. As I scan the new books lists I see that
it
appears,
>>> to my gratification, that my suggestions are being acted on. I am
pleased, but I cannot help noticing that it is being done without volunteers. If
time
>>> is money I wonder if it might be more efficient to donate money to
Bookshare to buy books and pay outsourcers rather than donate our time. If we
want
certain
>>> books in the collection I wonder if it might be faster and more
efficient to just donate the books rather than put so much of our own labor
into
them.
>>> As things change devices to accomplish our goals become obsolete when
they are replaced by better devices and certain jobs become obsolete when
better
>>> and mor efficient ways are found to do things. I wonder if Bookshare
volunteering is a job that is becoming obsolete. Since we have not even heard
hints
>>> from Bookshare that new volunteers are no longer welcome or that
volunteers can give up on certain jobs I wonder if Bookshare volunteering is
becoming
>>> obsolete and the folks at Bookshare do not even realize it yet. It does
seem that the volunteers are becoming less important to Bookshare and that
Bookshare
>>> could probably now do quite well without volunteers while still adding
books at a rapid rate. I am not saying that is good or bad. I am not saying
that
>>> I want it to be like that or that I don't want it to be like that. I am
just wondering and thinking. What do you guys think about what I have
said?Â
>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
                "Can a nation be free if it oppresses
other
nations? It cannot." Vladimir Lenin   Â
>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â The Militant:
>>>
http://www.themilitant.com
<http://www.themilitant.com/>
>>> Pathfinder Press:
>>>
http://www.pathfinderpress.com
<http://www.pathfinderpress.com/>
>>> Granma International:
>>>
http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â _
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