[bksvol-discuss] Re: Are volunteers really that important anymore?
- From: Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:19:47 EDT
You have a point there. As a matter of fact, the reason that I took so long
to find out that my submissions had excessive line breaks was because they
read alright to me and I didn't even know they were there. If I downloaded a
book with excessive line breaks I also imagine I would not know they were
there and it would be perfectly okay with me. I say that with full
realization that it would make a difference to those who navigate around in a
book
rather than read it from start to finish like I usually do.
"Can a
nation be free if it oppresses other nations? It cannot." Vladimir Lenin
The Militant: http://www.themilitant.com Pathfinder Press:
http://www.pathfinderpress.com
Granma International: http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
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Subj:
[bksvol-discuss] Re: Are volunteers really that important anymore?
Date:
8/27/2009 3:38:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From:
gstweedy@xxxxxxx
Reply-to:
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To:
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent from the Internet
(Details)
table end
The only thing I can see as a totally blind person is OK some of the
earlier books
had things like this
I am reading this boo
instead of I am reading this book.
Now things like that that really wow mess up a book,
certainly need to be corrected and dealt with I can understand that.
But from a reading/listening stand point as only I have,
if all the words are right,
and all the carrots and asterics dashes stuff that makes terrible reading
are fixed,
and it's just text and I'm reading along,
I'm not gonna care whether I can see a font or chapter heading, because for
me,
that is not what I'm doing,
I'm just reading,
I don't care if a paragraph is there or not,
as long as it reads right in my ears.
I know such things have I gues to be taken in,
but for a blind reader,
who is finally getting to possibly read a book I've never read before
simply because it was not available,
hey I'm not that picky hey I'm just glad to get to read it.
I can understand where you clean things up that kind of thing.
But for a totally blind person who can't see the darn thing anyway,
I know seeing people need it,
and pictures, those don't intrest me,
in fact that doggone Against All Odds,
and that was the first book I did,
where I did have some help from Bob, to even see if I could scan and how to
do it,
it had those pictures caption things,
and it was a mess,
but if the pages aren't shiny
like those were,
how's a blind person gonna know if there's a picture there anyhow,
I just thought I'd love to put a book up I had or got,
lots of us can't even see these things,
and then if one has a book rejected,
I understand quality I mean I do,
I thought this was part of the wonderfulness of bookshare,
the uniqueness of a person's contribution of help.
Gwen
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----- Original Message -----
From:
Denise Thompson
To:
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:16 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Are volunteers really that important anymore?
I think we have noticed it, but no one right now is prepared to deal with
it since it was once the foundation of the organization itself. It was one of
the big draws in the beginning which led to many news stories and funding.
The other issue for me is who is benefitting from all the changes. I mean
the changes in terms of the correct preciseness of books scanned now.
Certainly
phe push to get rid of garbled text and scannos is wonderful and can easily
be done today with impprooved OCR software. The other things though I
wonder.
It's true that I read in the Daisy format very seldom. Mostly I quickly
convert my books to text and put them on my phone to read. When I'm listening
to
a book, it sounds exactly the same to me if it has paragraph marks at the
end of each line or double paragraph marks for real paragraphs. It sounds the
same if chapter titles are in 16 point font or in 12 point. The only real
factor that affects me as a blind person listening to the book is the
cleanness
of the scan. I know that the other factors mentioned work better in a Daisy
translation and create better divisions on a daisy player. Perhaps for text
books this is more important, but for reading for pleasure, it makes no
difference in listening, but makes a whole lot of difference in scanning,
proofing
and getting a book accepted into the library.
My last thought on this is a concern about pictures. I foresee a time when
people who are blind will no longer be able to scan because it will become
important
that the pictures be included. Now I go through the new books and there is
the added choice of downloading daisy with images. In the last book I
scanned
I was aware there were some pictures, but I'm not able to really deal with
them because I can't tell how over all they are affecting the page lay out.
I deleted them when I knew one was there. I knew one was there primarily by
accident if it was at the top of the page as I checked for a paragraph mark
I would be told a picture was there. I don't know if I got them all or if
some still remained. The book was accepted, but I don't know what the proofer
had to do in order to make that happened. I may not be expressing myself
well, but its almost now as if we're creating books that would pass in the
sighted
world with all the same bells and whistles. It seems that maybe we're
loosing sight of the mission a bit. But, again, I guess if the books can be done
with all the bells and whistles more quickly without us and we still get
the benefit of the greater numbers, maybe it doesn't matter.
Denise
At 10:36 AM 8/27/2009, you wrote:
block quote
If I had a stack of those gay and lesbian books on hand I can imagine that
I might send them off to Bookshare and I might be out the postage and the
cost
of the books if I had bought them, but I would also be out many hours of
volunteer labor to get them into the collection. I am not particularly
interested
in children's picture books, so I have not downloaded any, but I would
think that outsourcers could handle them. I think that Pavi, in fact, said that
the more difficult books have priority for being outsourced. The main thing
I have noticed, though, is that the proportion of books added to the
collection
by means other than volunteers is now considerably greater than the
proportion added by volunteers and that proportion is growing. Also, a good
many
books
already in the collection by means of volunteers are being replaced by
other means. Furthermore, the proportion that are being added by volunteers
could
, in most cases, be done faster and just as easily or more easily, by those
other means. No one has mentioned it. In fact, the Bookshare staff is
proceeding
away with more and more innovations for volunteers. What I was really
wondering is whether volunteering is becoming obsolete and nobody has noticed
it.
"Can a nation be
free if it oppresses other nations? It cannot." Vladimir Lenin
The Militant:
http://www.themilitant.com
Pathfinder Press:
http://www.pathfinderpress.com
Granma International:
http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
_
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Subj:Â
[bksvol-discuss] Re: Are volunteers really that important anymore?  Â
Date:Â
8/27/2009 4:25:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time Â
From:Â
rwiley@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Â
Reply-to:Â
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Â
To:Â
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Â
Sent from the Internet
(Details)Â
table end
Roger, this is an excellent summary of some of the things I have also been
thinking.Â
When I first started with bookshare a couple of years ago, there were tons
of books whose rating was fair, and in most cases that designation was kind.
But, the books were available, and for a group starving for reading
material, they were great to have. Â
However, our tastes--and our tolerances--have improved. Where once we would
accept day-old bread because we were starving, we now want freshly baked
goods.
(Wow, I must be hungry).Â
So, I think your comments about the changing role of the volunteer are
right on target. There will always be a need for volunteers to do the specialty
books
(such as children's books with pictures), and books of special interest. I
can't imagine NLS having a whole category of gay and lesbian books, nor can
I imagine the department of education wanting their money going toward that
end. (I'm not being critical, just can't imagine it happening.) But, we
volunteers
can make it happen. We can also put books in the collection from those
publishers who won't cooperate with us (after all, we have the law on our
side).Â
In short, I see the role of the volunteer changing, but not going away any
time soon.Â
There's an old Chinese proverb that says "may you live in interesting
times." I've always wondered whether that was a curse, challenge or a blessing.
Whatever
it is, we live in very interesting times with bookshare.Â
BobÂ
“We know the future will outlast all of us, but I believe that all of us
will live on in the future we make,â€
Senator Edward M. Kennedy
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----- Original Message -----
From:
Rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx
To:
bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:22 PM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Are volunteers really that important anymore?
I am not taking a position one way or another. I just thought I would
express some thoughts and questions that have been running through my mind. I
have
been involved with Bookshare for just a little over a year now and have
seen some considerable changes. I have also surmised changes that came about
before
I came along. As I understand it the name Bookshare was literal in the
beginning. That is, people posted the books they had scanned for themselves and
actually shared them with others who were posting books they had scanned
for themselves. That would have meant that the only source of books Bookshare
had for the most part was from the volunteers. Since then, though,
publishers have come to contribute large numbers of books. Bookshare is
acquiring
books
from donations or from buying them and scanning them in house or
outsourcing them. It actually appears that the number of books added to the
collection
by means other than volunteers is considerably greater than those added by
the volunteers. I have noticed other things being done that volunteers do
that
may be being done more prolifically by other means than by volunteers. On
more than one occasion now I have made a quality report for a book that
contained
an error or errors. To my surprise the whole entire book was promptly
replaced by an outsourcer. That makes me wonder why we should bother with
scanning
a BSO. Volunteers are more and more frequently finding that the books they
intend to scan are being added by outsourcers before the volunteer get a
chance
to add it. Yes, that means that the volunteer can work on something else,
but it still remains that work that would have been done by a volunteer is
being
done otherwise. We were asked for some suggestions about gaps in the
collection and I made a suggestion. As I scan the new books lists I see that it
appears,
to my gratification, that my suggestions are being acted on. I am pleased,
but I cannot help noticing that it is being done without volunteers. If time
is money I wonder if it might be more efficient to donate money to
Bookshare to buy books and pay outsourcers rather than donate our time. If we
want
certain
books in the collection I wonder if it might be faster and more efficient
to just donate the books rather than put so much of our own labor into them.
As things change devices to accomplish our goals become obsolete when they
are replaced by better devices and certain jobs become obsolete when better
and mor efficient ways are found to do things. I wonder if Bookshare
volunteering is a job that is becoming obsolete. Since we have not even heard
hints
from Bookshare that new volunteers are no longer welcome or that volunteers
can give up on certain jobs I wonder if Bookshare volunteering is becoming
obsolete and the folks at Bookshare do not even realize it yet. It does
seem that the volunteers are becoming less important to Bookshare and that
Bookshare
could probably now do quite well without volunteers while still adding
books at a rapid rate. I am not saying that is good or bad. I am not saying that
I want it to be like that or that I don't want it to be like that. I am
just wondering and thinking. What do you guys think about what I have said?Â
                                  Â
              "Can a nation be free if it oppresses other
nations? It cannot." Vladimir Lenin   Â
            The Militant:
http://www.themilitant.com
Pathfinder Press:
http://www.pathfinderpress.com
Granma International:
http://granma.cu/ingles/index.html
            _
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