atw: Re: Youse
- From: Ken Randall <kenneth_james_randall@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 01:39:08 -0800 (PST)
'As I predicted in earlier austechwriter threads, “youse” is on the march.'
(quoted from the email below)
Well, I can't remember the last time I heard "youse". I probably have heard it
from time to time, but very infrequently. The only person I have ever known
who used it was my late brother-in-law, who has been no longer with us for a
very long time. He used "you" for the plural more often than "youse" anyway.
That word is not part of everyday life (my everyday life, anyway). Does anyone
else hear it often?
--- On Tue, 10/1/12, Geoffrey <geoffrey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Geoffrey <geoffrey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: atw: Re: Youse
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Received: Tuesday, 10 January, 2012, 8:13 PM
Charles, many thanks for your comments, but my experiences differ, at least in
part, from yours. I spent a bit of time around the Temple Bar area of Dublin,
and in the cafes surrounding Dublin's Trinity College, and I heard "youse"
quite often. Often enough to make to stop and listen and ponder. I also heard
it in Kilkenny. Perhaps it is not so common elsewhere in Ireland, or perhaps
our chronologies are different. (My exposure to Irish English occurred in 2006.
Might it be that we are talking about quite different times?) I have not been
to Liverpool, but I have met scores of Liverpudlians and in many countries.
Their frequent, and unselfconscious, use of "youse" led me to think that it
must be quite common in their homeland. I am reinforced in my generalisations
by the observations of other language-watchers. For example, the second edition
of Pocket Fowler's Modern English Usage, published by Oxford University Press
in 2008, has this to say:
“yous, youse are regional and dialectal forms of you (plural). In Britain
they are associated especially with the speech of Glasgow and Liverpool, and
they occur in American, Australian, and New Zealand literature …” (p. 663).
And in The Language Wars: A History of Proper English (John, Murray, 2011),
Henry Hitches writes: “Today’s yous, widely heard in Ireland, and youse, heard
on Merseyside [that is, in and around Liverpool] and in Australia, revive and
make explicit the difference between the plural you and the singular (p. 41).”
You mention the prevalence of youse in Lancashire. Lancashire happens to abut
Merseyside, so I’m not surprised that you heard “youse” in Lancashire if it was
common in Liverpool. I was intrigued to read in Pam Peters’s The Cambridge
Guide to Australian English Usage (2007, p. 878) that yous made it into the
Oxford Dictionary in 1989, some 16 years before it made it into The Macquarie
Dictionary. And you will also see it in Webster’s, the bible of American
English. As I predicted in earlier austechwriter threads, “youse” is on the
march. It will probably be standard English in 100 years. You might as well get
used to it. Long may it live. Cheers Geoffrey MarnellPrincipal
ConsultantAbelard Consulting Pty Ltd P: 03 9596 3456M: 0419 574 668F: 03 9596
3625W: www.abelard.com.au -----Original Message-----
From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Charles Boyle
Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012 4:23 PM
To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: atw: Re: Youse Geoffrey,I'd slightly disagree there, having been
brought up in Ireland and then in small town between Liverpool and Manchester,
and subsequently working in both places later on in life, I'll offer the
following observations.- "Youse" was standard across Lancashire, regardless of
heritage, it was just a common part of the local vernacular and nobody (except
my Aunt from London) ever noticed using it.- I've never heard "Youse" in
Ireland, again it could be a regional thing (can't say I was in every county),
but the most common Dublin/Kildare reference I heard was "Yer" ... "it's yer
man over there""yerall gobshites" Cheers, Charlie. -----Original
Message-----From:
austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of GeoffreySent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012 6:57 AMTo:
austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: atw: Re: Youse Daryl "youse" has been in
the Macquarie for a while now. However,
the current online version (updated every year) still lists it as
"non-standard".You will find it much more prevalent in Irish and Liverpudlian
English than in Australian English. There it is not considered poor or
lower-class usage.It's a useful word, if only we all could get over our
prejudices. Perhaps a little poem I dashed off about "youse" might lighten
our attitude towards it: http://www.abelard.com.au/words-2-2.pdf and jump to
page 19. Cheers Geoffrey MarnellPrincipal ConsultantAbelard Consulting Pty
LtdP: 03 9596 3456M: 0419 574 668F: 03 9596 3625W: www.abelard.com.au
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