Please read the following as robust intellectual challenge, not person offense either taken or intended. From: austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:austechwriter-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Marnell Sent: Wednesday, 3 February 2010 9:51 AM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: atw: Re: Youse Hi Christine, Of course we use language for social purposes as well as to communicate. Curious that you think that subtle language cues do not communicate. It is my contention that most of our communication is done on a subtle level. Christine, you can choose your words for whatever reasons you like. There are no language police to avoid. But if you are refusing to use "youse" on the grounds that it is the language of the semi-literate, you are effectively looking down your nose at these folk. Wrong, I am using language to ensure that others don't look down on ME for using this language. I came from a Coronation Street style upbringing, and had the advantage of being very clever and so educated out of my class. Whether in Australia or England, it is social and career death to be perceived as "working class". My intelligence and obvious talents were continually challenged because my spoken vocabulary was working class and apparently limited. I now deliberately maintain my blunt English working class manner and simple Old English vocabulary, and it still gets me into a lot of trouble. Have you not yourself perceived my language as simplistic rather than simple? So why do we turn up our noses at the folk who got mediocre English training, but not at those who got mediocre physics training? You tell me. The same reason we turn up our noses at the people with physical disabilities, or any other deviation from the norm. It is read as a cue that, in the absence of other information, gives us a quick score card to assess the other person against. Don't blame me for it. I have spent much of my life as the victim of it, and have learned to "play the game". Put me in elite English company, I will shut up for 2 days and only mutter a few words when spoken to. After two days, I have absorbed the style, rhythm, accent and vocabulary of the language they are using and can converse with the best of them - if I choose to do so. That's what a grammar school education will do for you. Those of us on the receiving end of discrimination, ostracised at school and university because of our social origins, learn the art of the chameleon, and we NEVER say, "We done". So why do we do this with language but not with other disciplines. I'd be surprised if you can give me any answer other than "snobbery. Naturally, but whether one is the giver or the receiver of the snobbery may be a teensy weensy little bit critical. Most of us would not say "We done it well, did youse?" because we do not want to be on the receiving end. For a start, it would be career death to all of us on this list. If we want to earn, we conform to the language straightjacket. A challenge to you Geoff, given your obvious mastery of language. Start using the word "youse" in ALL social situations (I won't ask you to sacrifice your career) including family and aged relatives of all kinds, and see what happens. Then I would say, welcome to the real world where most of us are the victims, not the perpetrators of the snobbery. Christine