It seems to me that on a Wittgenstein list we have been somehow hijacked by an approach to philosophy that seems to be very unWittgensteinian. As I have said in the past, I don't think we ought to be slaves to Wittgeinsteinian ideas but, rather open, to all ideas (at least to consider them on the merits), nor do I think we should simply abandon traditional philosophy because Wittgenstein, in some of his more assertive moments, proclaimed that classical philosophy had gone the way of the dodo once one undertook to think of philosophical issues as he did. In fact, I think he was somewhat right about it though. Much of what philosophers of a traditional bent expend their energy on is stuff Wittgenstein would probably have looked askance at. Our ongoing debates about the relative merits of Searle's and Dennett's views of consciousness, and the ideas of others (like Chalmers, Strawson, Fodor, Hauser, et al) often seem to be nearly pointless, especially when they descend into metaphysical disputes over what the world really is. Of course we cannot know except in a somewhat instrumentalist way (what seems to work) because all affirmative speculation, once we go beyond the hard sciences, is just so many ideas without a basis for distinguishing truth from falsehood. Yet major thinkers in this area, like Searle and Dennett, both claim to have taken some influence from Wittgenstein. Wittgenstein's insights into how language works, especially his remarks on the impossibility of private language, have a bearing on questions of consciousness (though sometimes it seems recognizing the particularly difficult terrain of the mental landscape for language doesn't seem to have much impact on those of us keen to traverse it). Would Wittgenstein have troubled much about questions of consciousness? Well it's fair to say he would have asked what we mean by the term in various contexts, how is the word actually used, etc. I think he would have done something much like Sean attempted earlier on in these discussions, i.e., he would have said that a lot of this debate comes down to identifying and clarifying the different uses we are each making of the terms in question ("consciousness", "mind", "intentionality", "awareness", "understanding", "thoughts", "thinking", "belief", "feeling", "memory", "representing", "hoping", "willing", etc., etc.). There's plenty in the words alone to explore so why isn't that enough? I think someone like Dennett is doing genuinely useful stuff by offering a way of understanding what we mean by "consciousness" that is consistent with a scientific worldview. It doesn't mean he's right except insofar as his approach coheres with that of modern science. He is saying, in essence, that this is what philosophy can do in this arena: show us how a scientific approach to analyzing what consciousness is all about could work. Dennett doesn't maintain (at least to my knowledge) that he is certainly right about how consciousness works. He only says he is right about this being a way to conceive of consciousness that captures and accounts for all the features our ordinary ways of talking about mind suggest are relevant. Searle takes a more traditionally philosophic view with his formal argument from the Chinese Room (even if it is deeply mistaken on my view) but his approach, which does try to step out of the existing linguistic categories and modes of classification, also seems to partake of Wittgenstein though I think Dennett's effort is finally doomed by his attachment to the idea of first-personness. Searle, it seems to me, has inspired a very strong cadre of believers and supporters but I am unaware that Dennett has done the same. On most lists I have found that Dennett is generally attacked while Searle almost revered. I find that especially fascinating since I think it's so clear that Searle is deeply mistaken while Dennett is just the clearer thinker. This has led me to think that the ongoing Dennett vs. Searle debate is at least in part a dispute between partisans (on at least one side). How would Wittgenstein have managed to stop this seemingly endless tussle? Could he have done it? Does his approach to philosophy enable us to find a way to cut the Gordian knot of competing belief systems in a way that enables us to "go on"? If Wittgenstein's contribution to philosophy was as earth shaking as many of his admirers have thought, oughtn't we able to find something in his work that brings the endless arguments to heel? Or are we doomed, even on a Wittgenstein-oriented list, to simply soldier on forever with logical claims vs. claims about logic and metaphysical disputes about underlying ontological "facts"? SWM ========================================= Need Something? Check here: http://ludwig.squarespace.com/wittrslinks/