[wisb] Re: counting after the fact birds
- From: Danny Akers <birdmandan1231@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: WISC Listserv <wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 20:32:31 -0500
I'm in full agreement with Greg and I'm doubtful I could have said it as well.
As an addendum, go back to that group of shorebirds. Let's say they were in
flight this time around. Are you going to be able to identify every species of
shorebirds in a massive flock as it moves around for a few seconds? Per the
argument at hand, the last Curlew Sandpiper in Iowa was identified this way. To
my knowledge, it wasn't identified in the field, it was later identified in a
photo of the flock. Whether or not the Curlew Sandpiper is on the list of the
original observer(s) I have no idea, but I don't believe it should be. If one
cannot recognize that this bird is odd (or rare) in the field, why should one
be allowed to count it later?
The question I'll pose is this.... what happens when you prepare to write the
documentation for that bird without the photo. What do you remember? My guess
is next to nothing.
Danny Akers
Iowa City & Ankeny, IA
BirdManDan1231@xxxxxxxxxxx
> From: gseegert@xxxxxxxxx
> To: wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 20:10:51 -0400
> Subject: [wisb] counting after the fact birds
>
> All
> In regard to Wayne's query, I believe you should only count birds you "see"
> and the only place to see them is in the field. Where and how you made the ID
> is not relevant. I'm not a photographer so this is all moot for me. Let's use
> a couple of examples. Say you're looking at a group of 10 shorebirds and you
> see one that looks different, which you think is either Baird's or
> white-rumped...so you take a photo. Later, based on that photo, you conclude
> it's a white-rumped. To me that's a countable bird. You saw it, noted
> something about it that caught your eye and identified it later. The same
> logic applies whether you used a photo to ID it or in my case walked back to
> the car to look at one of my books to jog my memory about how to distinguish
> these two species.
>
> Now let's change the scenario a little. You still have the same flock of 10
> shorebirds but the photo you get includes the whole flock, not just the one
> odd bird that has you puzzled. Upon looking at the photo you still aren't
> sure so you send it to Expert A. You say, " Dear Expert A, the third bird
> from the left in his photo has me stumped. Is it a Bairds or WR?" His/her
> reply....."I thought you'd be asking me about the fifth bird from the left
> which happens to be a red-necked stint. Oh, BTW, the third bird from the left
> is a western sandpiper". Aside from feeling somewhat embarrassed, you can
> count the western. You misidentified it, but you saw it and realized it was
> different. You simply got the ID wrong....been there, done that. But can
> (should) you count the stint. You probably looked through the whole flock,
> though perhaps rather hastily so technically speaking you did see it. But
> should you count it? I say absolutely not. You had no clue this bird was the
> re. You shouldn't get to count it You blew it. You shouldn't get a do-over.
> Should you report this bird to the hotline? Absolutely because the bird was
> really there, it is just that, in my opinion, you never saw it. Otherwise,
> pretty soon we'll have people counting birds they saw over a web cam in
> Brazil or birds they see in the background of a photo they took at
> Yellowstone 14 years ago. In my opinion you can have a list..."birds seen on
> webcams" or "birds seen in old photos", but again, in the spirit of what I
> think birding should be...seeing AND identifying (with or without the help of
> books and experts) birds.... the stint shouldn't count.
>
> Greg Seegert
> Deerfield, IL
>
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