[wisb] Re: counting after the fact birds
- From: "Mike Duchek" <mikeduchek@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <gseegert@xxxxxxxxx>, "[Wisb]" <wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 19:32:47 -0500
I disagree and would go along more with Bernie. Even in your second
scenario, you saw it with your own eyes, possibly while looking through a
camera or binoculars, but you saw it. If the question is - "Hey, have you
ever seen a red-necked stint" you can answer "yes." In either scenario,
maybe you're not the best at IDing shorebirds (sounds like me), but if the
question is what have you seen I think you can count whatever's in the photo
you took.
Then again, I don't view birding so much as a sport of identification
skills, but more as trying to see what I can find and pass those findings
along to share them with the birding, scientific and conservation
communities. And I'd know better next time (hopefully) about the stint.
Also I don't think this is like counting stuff on a webcam at all, though
that is an interesting question too. If you know where a webcam is, and
you're watching it at home can you enter your sightings into eBird?
Especially if you know no one else is doing so? My answer would be yes,
though I'd get a different eBird account for that.
-Mike Duchek, Waukesha
-----Original Message-----
From: Seegert, Greg
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 7:10 PM
To: [Wisb]
Subject: [wisb] counting after the fact birds
All
In regard to Wayne's query, I believe you should only count birds you "see"
and the only place to see them is in the field. Where and how you made the
ID is not relevant. I'm not a photographer so this is all moot for me.
Let's use a couple of examples. Say you're looking at a group of 10
shorebirds and you see one that looks different, which you think is either
Baird's or white-rumped...so you take a photo. Later, based on that photo,
you conclude it's a white-rumped. To me that's a countable bird. You saw
it, noted something about it that caught your eye and identified it later.
The same logic applies whether you used a photo to ID it or in my case
walked back to the car to look at one of my books to jog my memory about how
to distinguish these two species.
Now let's change the scenario a little. You still have the same flock of 10
shorebirds but the photo you get includes the whole flock, not just the one
odd bird that has you puzzled. Upon looking at the photo you still aren't
sure so you send it to Expert A. You say, " Dear Expert A, the third bird
from the left in his photo has me stumped. Is it a Bairds or WR?" His/her
reply....."I thought you'd be asking me about the fifth bird from the left
which happens to be a red-necked stint. Oh, BTW, the third bird from the
left is a western sandpiper". Aside from feeling somewhat embarrassed, you
can count the western. You misidentified it, but you saw it and realized it
was different. You simply got the ID wrong....been there, done that. But
can (should) you count the stint. You probably looked through the whole
flock, though perhaps rather hastily so technically speaking you did see it.
But should you count it? I say absolutely not. You had no clue this bird
was the
re. You shouldn't get to count it You blew it. You shouldn't get a
do-over. Should you report this bird to the hotline? Absolutely because
the bird was really there, it is just that, in my opinion, you never saw it.
Otherwise, pretty soon we'll have people counting birds they saw over a web
cam in Brazil or birds they see in the background of a photo they took at
Yellowstone 14 years ago. In my opinion you can have a list..."birds seen
on webcams" or "birds seen in old photos", but again, in the spirit of what
I think birding should be...seeing AND identifying (with or without the help
of books and experts) birds.... the stint shouldn't count.
Greg Seegert
Deerfield, IL
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