[wineeg] Re: Default Montage may be the culprit? Was [Re: WinEEG ver 1.4]

  • From: "David E. Myer, Sr." <damyer@xxxxxxx>
  • To: wineeg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 20:34:05 -0500


I think you are probably correct. At some point in my unguided march=20
through the software I probably created a default Montage containing only=20
the famous seven channels. From that point forward, I became immersed in=20
sundry delusions about Man dominating Machine, while the reverse was=20
clearly the case. Darn !

I am pretty sure that when I tried to add a channel to the Seven Channel=20
Suite, I was unable to because all the candidates were greyed out (i.e.=20
inaccessible). This lends some real weight to your estimate that I have=20
somehow processed myself into a Seven Channel Default montage.

I have some other duties this evening, but I will again be in my qEEG=20
cockpit tomorrow, and I will let you know how it turns out.

Thank you for your perspective, and for the amendments to posting, since I=
tend to "be" whatever email address I last received a message on. Which=20
works as well for me, generally, as Default Montages do for WinEEG  :)

Dave Myer
Boston Neurofeedback

BTW: What connection do you have with Mitsar ? Once far enough removed from=
the US White House, no one would likely confuse Norway with St. Petersburg.=
And so, my curiosity was raised.

At 12:18 AM 2/12/03 +0100, you wrote:
> >Before I Mis-"adjusted" the software, it was running quite well,=
> >I had discovered that if I 2clicked on the EEG label for a particular
> >channel, the display would simplify to show only that channel. I could=
> >get back to the full, nearly incomprehensible all-channel display. That=
> >seemed very nice.
> >
> >I explored the domain of the Montage menus for some time,
>The Montage menus can be found three places (not counting the status
>bars) as far as I can see:
>File->New file... displays Patient Card dialog: with tabs for Montage
>parameters. (Changes here are NOT saved permanently, but only for the
>file you are now opening.)
>View-> Select montage...  (changes are ONLY saved for the current file)
>Setup-> Montage list...  (Here is where you save your montages on a
>more permanent basis. Any already open files will NOT show changes
>you make here, until you close the files and open them again.)
>The Montage parameters dialog are the same in all three locations,
>which adds to the confusion about temporary and permanent changes.
> >eventually
> >creating a new montage of my very own. I was so proud. It even seemed to
> >show only the seven channels I had asked of it.
>Ah yes, the all-too-familiar feeling of man at last dominating
>technology; the operant conditioning that keeps us at the screen into
>the wee hours...  :-)
>There are two ways of showing just a few channels  in the  Setup->
>Montage list... :
>hiding them (unchecking the check box in front of the channel)
>deleting them (selecting a channel and pressing the "delete" button
>at the bottom of the dialog)
>You can record on a "hidden" channel, but not on a deleted one, as
>far as I can see.
> >I turned off the gear and
> >padded off to bed.
> >
> >Next day, after laboring mightily for nearly an hour, I managed to get=
> >channels wired up to my live-in volunteer (Anita). I flipped off the
> >electrode map that said all channels were hooked up
>The impedance map does not reflect how many channels the software is
>recording. It always shows the 19 standard electrode placements. It
>simply says how the amp is reading the impedance at each location,
>and doesn=B4t care if the WinEEG montage is set up to use all the
>channels or only a few.
> >, and tried to Monitor
> >the streams of data I imagined were flowing from her head into the=
> >Seven channels showed up. Thirty mnutes of increasingly plaintive=
> >from the Victim, and I still had only seven channels showing up. Didn't
> >matter which montage I selected.
>Hmmm. Once you have recorded an EEG you can switch montages, but that
>only changes your "view" of what you have recorded. If your 7 channel
>montage* is set up as a default, (i.e. it is the one that shows
>initially on the "patient card" in the File->New... dialog,) I
>suspect you are stuck with 7 channels. I guess the trick is to select
>the right montage upon opening a new file, or changing the default
>*(I am guessing that the the other channels are deleted, instead of=
> >I released my captive and went to sleep.
> >Tomorrow, I would break ranks with the engineering fraternity and read
> >the  manual.
> >
> >Chastened, after so much unaccustomed reading, I am forced to report I
> >still have seven channels. Or only one. The menu screens pertaining to
> >Montages have become dogeared  almost as fast as the pages of the
> >proverbial manual. What I seem to have missed is how to restore missing
> >channels to the various tabs in the Montage menu.
>Open the WinEEG without opening any files. The Setup->Montage list...
>is available. Select the montage you want to edit and click on the
>"add"  button in the bottom of the dialog. You get a new channel,
>which you have to edit regarding placement, gain and a few other
>How do you set the default montage? The last montage you look at in
>Setup->Montage list.. becomes your default.
>Suggestions for the next version of WinEEG:
>A dialog for changing the default montage would be a nice touch.
>Also the program should clearly advise when changes to the montage
>parameters are permanent or just for that particular recording.
>The impedance map could also show the current montage, with unused
>channels grayed out. That would be a valuable feedback, and a double
>check that the correct montage is used.
>Rename the 24 stored montages that come originally with the WinEEG.
>(BTW It isn=B4t mentioned in the manual, but I think you can have 24
>montages stored. You can=B4t add or delete a montage, but you can
>rename them, and add/delete channels,  Renaming them when you edit
>them is a good idea. Actually it would be a smart move if the
>montages came with sensible names and numbering: i.e.  01
>Referential, 02 Referential, 03 Sequential average... up to 24
>Monopolar. Actually calling the montages referential (instead of
>monopolar) and sequential (instead of bipolar) would be more precise
>and informative, I think.)
> >  Everything I find in the
> >manual works the way they say it works.  I freely admit that I am more of=
> >"How do I make it do this?" kinda person, as compared with a "This is=
> >happens when you press the pruple button" type. So the answer could be
> >staring smack out of the page, and I just missed it.
> >
> >Your suggestions are warmly invited.
> >
> >Dave Myer
> >Boston Neurofeedback
>Man vs. Technology: deuce again!
>I hope this was of some help.
>BTW I changed the mailing-list so that anyone can post to it, not
>just list-members. Some of us post from different mail adresses, and
>it makes sense not to have a list full of e-mail aliases, or having
>to wait around in cyberspace for moderator approval.

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