[wineeg] Default Montage may be the culprit? Was [Re: WinEEG ver1.4]

  • From: Joe Siri Ekgren <joesiri@xxxxxxxx>
  • To: wineeg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 00:18:14 +0100


>Before I Mis-"adjusted" the software, it was running quite well, actually.
>I had discovered that if I 2clicked on the EEG label for a particular
>channel, the display would simplify to show only that channel. I could also
>get back to the full, nearly incomprehensible all-channel display. That all
>seemed very nice.
>I explored the domain of the Montage menus for some time,

The Montage menus can be found three places (not counting the status 
bars) as far as I can see:
File->New file... displays Patient Card dialog: with tabs for Montage 
parameters. (Changes here are NOT saved permanently, but only for the 
file you are now opening.)
View-> Select montage...  (changes are ONLY saved for the current file)
Setup-> Montage list...  (Here is where you save your montages on a 
more permanent basis. Any already open files will NOT show changes 
you make here, until you close the files and open them again.)
The Montage parameters dialog are the same in all three locations, 
which adds to the confusion about temporary and permanent changes.

>creating a new montage of my very own. I was so proud. It even seemed to
>show only the seven channels I had asked of it.

Ah yes, the all-too-familiar feeling of man at last dominating 
technology; the operant conditioning that keeps us at the screen into 
the wee hours...  :-)
There are two ways of showing just a few channels  in the  Setup-> 
Montage list... :
hiding them (unchecking the check box in front of the channel)
deleting them (selecting a channel and pressing the "delete" button 
at the bottom of the dialog)
You can record on a "hidden" channel, but not on a deleted one, as 
far as I can see.

>I turned off the gear and
>padded off to bed.
>Next day, after laboring mightily for nearly an hour, I managed to get all
>channels wired up to my live-in volunteer (Anita). I flipped off the
>electrode map that said all channels were hooked up

The impedance map does not reflect how many channels the software is 
recording. It always shows the 19 standard electrode placements. It 
simply says how the amp is reading the impedance at each location, 
and doesn´t care if the WinEEG montage is set up to use all the 
channels or only a few.

>, and tried to Monitor
>the streams of data I imagined were flowing from her head into the machine.
>Seven channels showed up. Thirty mnutes of increasingly plaintive inquiries
>from the Victim, and I still had only seven channels showing up. Didn't
>matter which montage I selected.

Hmmm. Once you have recorded an EEG you can switch montages, but that 
only changes your "view" of what you have recorded. If your 7 channel 
montage* is set up as a default, (i.e. it is the one that shows 
initially on the "patient card" in the File->New... dialog,) I 
suspect you are stuck with 7 channels. I guess the trick is to select 
the right montage upon opening a new file, or changing the default 

*(I am guessing that the the other channels are deleted, instead of hidden.)

>I released my captive and went to sleep.
>Tomorrow, I would break ranks with the engineering fraternity and read
>the  manual.
>Chastened, after so much unaccustomed reading, I am forced to report I
>still have seven channels. Or only one. The menu screens pertaining to
>Montages have become dogeared  almost as fast as the pages of the
>proverbial manual. What I seem to have missed is how to restore missing
>channels to the various tabs in the Montage menu.

Open the WinEEG without opening any files. The Setup->Montage list... 
is available. Select the montage you want to edit and click on the 
"add"  button in the bottom of the dialog. You get a new channel, 
which you have to edit regarding placement, gain and a few other 

How do you set the default montage? The last montage you look at in 
Setup->Montage list.. becomes your default.

Suggestions for the next version of WinEEG:
A dialog for changing the default montage would be a nice touch.
Also the program should clearly advise when changes to the montage 
parameters are permanent or just for that particular recording.
The impedance map could also show the current montage, with unused 
channels grayed out. That would be a valuable feedback, and a double 
check that the correct montage is used.
Rename the 24 stored montages that come originally with the WinEEG. 
(BTW It isn´t mentioned in the manual, but I think you can have 24 
montages stored. You can´t add or delete a montage, but you can 
rename them, and add/delete channels,  Renaming them when you edit 
them is a good idea. Actually it would be a smart move if the 
montages came with sensible names and numbering: i.e.  01 
Referential, 02 Referential, 03 Sequential average... up to 24 
Monopolar. Actually calling the montages referential (instead of 
monopolar) and sequential (instead of bipolar) would be more precise 
and informative, I think.)

>  Everything I find in the
>manual works the way they say it works.  I freely admit that I am more of a
>"How do I make it do this?" kinda person, as compared with a "This is what
>happens when you press the pruple button" type. So the answer could be
>staring smack out of the page, and I just missed it.
>Your suggestions are warmly invited.
>Dave Myer
>Boston Neurofeedback

Man vs. Technology: deuce again!
I hope this was of some help.

BTW I changed the mailing-list so that anyone can post to it, not 
just list-members. Some of us post from different mail adresses, and 
it makes sense not to have a list full of e-mail aliases, or having 
to wait around in cyberspace for moderator approval.



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