[windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network - suggestions
- From: Greg Reese <gareese@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:24:45 -0500
the problem is these kids have seen Swordfish too many times and think it's
all Halle Berry and cool cars in IT.
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Berny Stapleton <berny@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> Yeah, I got asked by my old school to come back and give them a hand
> because their previous admin had been malicious and they needed to
> tidy up their environment before handing it over to a new admin.
>
> I found a couple of kids who were exploring the network because they
> didn't understand it. I didn't give them console access they weren't
> "admins", yes, getting them to do mundane tasks like replacing
> keyboards, setting up new workstations, explaining the odd bits and
> pieces to them wasn't wasted time for me (And besides, they are going
> to school, so it's not like they are with you all day). This is all
> new stuff for them, yeah sure, we have been doing it for 10 - 15 years
> (If not more), and it's mundane for us, but for them it's something
> that they haven't done before.
>
> Once the kids knew that on their network (There was two, a staff
> network, physically isolated by building area, somewhere they didn't
> have access to), and they understood what was there, there wasn't
> anything for them to explore. They also found some respect for the
> purpose that it was there for.
>
> Giving a student the ability to kill jobs on a print queue as opposed
> to running the whole server are two totally different matters. I ended
> up hiring a couple of the kids that came out of that school at a later
> date because they started in IT because of what I did.
>
> Berny
>
> 2009/3/26 Richard Bruce <richardbruce@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> > Ok, have you ever actually DONE this? Because in my experience that's NOT
> > the way it works. That just gives them more opportunities to "explore".
> In
> > many cases these kids don't think they're doing any harm because they're
> > NOT "attacking" - just "looking around". Now I have them logging into
> > servers, usually at the console in the server room, where they can pop a
> CD
> > or floppy in and really do some damage? No thanks! And I have to
> supervise
> > them? Sorry, I'm busy enough as it is. I don't have time to
> babysit. Unless
> > it's REALLY simple stuff like replacing keyboards or setting up
> > workstations, I just can't afford to make what I consider a bad
> investment
> > of my time and effort
> >
> > My solution? I had a meeting with him, the principal, his parents, and
> the
> > local cop. We explained exactly what the policy and the law says on this,
> > and what would happen to him. Done. And word spread fast. They don't
> stand
> > much of a chance getting a decent IT job with a criminal record.
> >
> >> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:27:03 +0000
> >> Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network - suggestions
> >> From: berny@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >> Would I TRUST them implicitly? No, it's not their job to be enforcing
> >> stuff, nor do they have the knowledge or maturity to properly look
> >> after it. But for 1 or 2 students who see things like network print
> >> queues filling up all the time (Out of paper and people hitting print
> >> 20 times because their job didn't come out straight away), and giving
> >> them something to do (Helping you around the place in their spare
> >> time, which also means that they are supervised) gives them a sense of
> >> responsibility for the network, so they don't WANT to attack it so
> >> much. They will ask you questions, and you will end up teaching them a
> >> bit, but instead of them attacking the network to find an answer, they
> >> ask a question. When they see or find something, they come to you
> >> straight away with it.
> >>
> >> It's free and it gets them onside.
> >>
> >> Berny
> >>
> >> 2009/3/26 Richard Bruce <richardbruce@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> >> > I gotta go with the solution in Snyder's environment ;-)> I've dealt
> >> > with
> >> > kids like this before. No matter how many holes we plug, they'll
> >> > find new
> >> > ones. You can even put them to work - but would you TRUST them with
> your
> >> > network or sensitive data? They ONLY way to put a stop to it have
> >> > consequences for their actions - and impose them!
> >> >
> >> > Richard Eells
> >> >
> >> >> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:30:00 +0000
> >> >> Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network -
> suggestions
> >> >> From: berny@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>
> >> >> OK,
> >> >>
> >> >> Maybe it's just me, but you gotta admit, that's inventive!
> >> >>
> >> >> I would be asking him if he has considered a career in IT
> >> >>
> >> >> Berny
> >> >>
> >> >> 2009/3/26 Patrick <london31uk@xxxxxxxxx>:
> >> >> > ok guys, after some serious talking to, the kid has decided to let
> us
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > on
> >> >> > some of his tricks.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 1. Download zip files allows him to get to the C: drive by
> being
> >> >> > able
> >> >> > to access the Temp Internet files.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 2. If he disconnects the computer from the network, it
> installs
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > local
> >> >> > profile for him, giving him access to the C: drive and the “Run”
> >> >> > command.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 3. He runs a “compressed” cmd file from within PowerPoint.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 4. By running “Find Printer” he is able to find users
> accounts.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 5. He accesses “command.com” (the equivalent of cmd.exe).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 6. He runs cmd.exe to get to files on the servers.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Should this kid not be studying, rather than keeping me busy?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Anyway, just thought to share.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Patrick
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ________________________________
> >> >> > From: Jim Kenzig http://thin.ms <jkenzig@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> > To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:54:33 PM
> >> >> > Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network -
> >> >> > suggestions
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Yes I understand kids will be kids but it covers you.
> >> >> > Jim Kenzig
> >> >> > Blog: http://www.techblink.com
> >> >> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/kenzig
> >> >> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/InternetPilot
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Patrick <london31uk@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Hi Jim,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> This is an idea I have suggested, and I think there is a good case
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> push
> >> >> >> this forward. Whats I have found is that no matter how tight you
> try
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> make
> >> >> >> things the kids will seek to break in. In most cases because they
> do
> >> >> >> not
> >> >> >> understand what the consequences could be if enforced.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Really annoying.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Thanks
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Patrick
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> ________________________________
> >> >> >> From: Jim Kenzig http://thin.ms/ <jkenzig@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> >> To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:59:44 PM
> >> >> >> Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network -
> >> >> >> suggestions
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Well I am not sure about Australia but here we do have computer
> >> >> >> hacking
> >> >> >> laws and a simple "Your current computer activity appears to
> >> >> >> be illegal
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> you may be prosecuted if you do not cease and desist" dm to the
> >> >> >> computer may
> >> >> >> be enough. You of course also make sure that you have a proper
> >> >> >> logon
> >> >> >> privacy message in place prior to logon that requires an OK click.
> >> >> >> Here is ours:
> >> >> >> THIS SYSTEM IS FOR USE OF AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND ACTIVITIES ONLY!
> >> >> >> Activities may be subject to monitoring, recording, and periodic
> >> >> >> audits
> >> >> >> The system and all content are property of CCPL and are NOT
> >> >> >> considered
> >> >> >> private.
> >> >> >> The organization may access any users accounts or communications.
> >> >> >> Anyone using this system expressly consents to the above and to
> all
> >> >> >> CCPL
> >> >> >> Policies and Rules regarding
> >> >> >> computer and Internet use and security.
> >> >> >> OK
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> This should cover you legally at least.
> >> >> >> Regards
> >> >> >> Jim Kenzig
> >> >> >> Blog: http://www.techblink.com
> >> >> >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kenzig
> >> >> >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/InternetPilot
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Berny Stapleton
> >> >> >> <berny@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Yes, it was actually regedit and they were modifying the SAM.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Quite clever really, but a little frustrating.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> 2009/3/25 Robert K Coffman Jr. -Info From Data Corp.
> >> >> >>> <bcoffman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> >> >> >>> > Scheduled task can run in System context & allow someone to
> >> >> >>> > launch a
> >> >> >>> > cmd
> >> >> >>> > prompt or something with basically full control of the system.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >>> > From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >>> > [mailto:windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sorin
> Srbu
> >> >> >>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 3:39 AM
> >> >> >>> > To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >>> > Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network -
> >> >> >>> > suggestions
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > Could you please elaborate on the scheduler thing, what's that
> >> >> >>> > about?
> >> >> >>> > Thx.
> >> >> >>> > --
> >> >> >>> > /Sorin
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >>-----Original Message-----
> >> >> >>> >>From: windows2000-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:windows2000-
> >> >> >>> >>bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Berny Stapleton
> >> >> >>> >>Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 9:38 PM
> >> >> >>> >>To: windows2000@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >>> >>Subject: [windows2000] Re: How to tighten up your network -
> >> >> >>> >> suggestions
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >>Oh, turn off the scheduler. Keep your patches up to date.
> (That's
> >> >> >>> >> the
> >> >> >>> >>one that caught me)
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >
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> >> >> >>> >
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> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
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> >> >
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