(VICT) Re: retreiving, how to teach to grab
- From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:39:18 -0700
Ioana,
I've been going through a similar process with Mitsy, mostly as a way to
keep her entertained than because it's really necessary. She does point =
out
objects I drop, but she expects me to pick them up. /smile/ She is =
very
good at finding her ball at the park and either bringing it to me to
throw/kick or making a sound with it so I can go to her to throw/kick =
it.
She seems to understand that I simply can't find the ball for myself =
these
days, even the bright neon ones, so she helps me out. Good of her, =
isn't
it? /grin/
I did try the formal method for teaching a more formal retrieval system =
for
objects not toys. Building a behavior bit by bit using repetitions and
chaining isn't that much different from what I do, but it was a change =
for
me as well as for her. I tend more naturally to using successive
approximation. I reward a piece of behavior when it happens until she =
makes
the connection, then reward the next refinement until she gets it, and =
so
on. We both enjoying going out and about, so I have ended up doing most =
of
our training on the fly because it works for both of us. I have done
shocking little foundation work at home using repetitions because Mitsy
grasps commands and how to use the behaviors so quickly that she gets =
bored
and starts playing games. It's a little scary -- she will use the new
behavior while misbehaving and make it very clear she is doing this to =
make
a point and that she believes she is being very clever. Then we will go =
out
and she will display her grasp of the command by applying the new =
behavior
in a complex way. Again, she will make it very obvious that she is =
being
unspeakably clever. Also that she is just messing with my head for fun.
She's done the same with the retrieve I was attempting to teach her as
practice for me on the formal OC process. I thought, just for grins, I
would follow the five repetitions rule and attempt to achieve reliable
achievement of each behavior before moving on to the next. It was not a
smashing success. Part of that was me, concentrating too much on my =
part of
the process, and part of it was her impatience with such nonsense (as =
she
sees it). She has added those behaviors into our play around the house,
putting her ball in boxes or on shelves, then taking it out and throwing =
it
to me. Or putting on shelves to roll out of her reach so I have to get =
on
the floor and reach in to get it. Cracks me up. Using that behavior =
set to
do something useful is simply not something she wishes to do. She will =
find
my other sock and point to it, and she has learned on her own to give me
sound cues (when she feels like it) if I'm too slow to figure out what =
she's
doing because there's not enough light in the room for me to see her. =
When
I optimistically ask her to pick it up and bring it to me, she =
acknowledges
my request and goes back to pointing at the sock. She will watch me =
sort
the laundry, touch an article of clothing when I name it, then stand in =
the
basket if I nag too much about having her take it.
None of that is helpful, is it? /grin/ I have found that using my =
static
duster as a training stick will get her to repeat the behavior set on
command twice. Then she throws it at me. As far as I know at this =
point,
what I've learned is that using a new methodology on a dog you've been
training the old way for a year or more is not likely to bring success.
Especially when the "old way" is sort of what you've worked out based on =
the
dog's way of learning in the first place. Also that my dog, despite =
having
turned into a crackerjack guide, is still a complete brat. /grin/ Next
time around, I will probably start with the more formal OC style of
training. The theory being that next time around I will know what I'm
doing. Ha!
If we ever have a breakthrough there and I learn something from it =
that's
useful, I'll let you know. I'll also be interested to see how you solve =
the
problem. Since your dog seems to be following the same process as =
Mitsy,
your solution might help me get the upper hand in this one. Being
outsmarted by the dog is a bit too much humility for me! /smile/
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ioana
Gandrabur
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 11:48 AM
To: Vi-clickertraining
Subject: (VICT) retreiving, how to teach to grab
Greetings everyone,
I had sent this some time ago but I think I might have made a mistake =
when I
sent it.
I have been interested to teach my dog to retrieve and thatch objects =
for
me. It is to important, more like a fun project. Especially bringing =
toys
back to me might seem useful. I have read articles referred to in some
earlier posts about teaching the dog to touch, grab, hold and give from =
the
hand and then from the lap and finally further away. I can not seem to =
get
him to grab. He touches the object and if I delay clicking he will lick =
it
enthusiastically and try to put his paw on it but never grabbing it. He =
does
grab toys and brings them to me but only if he feels like it. So I don't
think he has a sensitive mouth that makes him dislike it.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Best regards and thanks for the interesting messages.
Ioana and Guide dog Adrian
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