[ueb-ed] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Help] Braille notation on consumer electronics?
- From: James Bowden <James.Bowden@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 19:18:16 +0000
Hi Bob,
Yes, I think this is the right ISO document. Unfortunately, yes, it is a
paid-for document. I don't have a copy here.
Interestingly, when I went to the page you quoted, it lists a different
document reference number, but my colleague confirmed this is the number.
I trust this helps.
With best regards,
James.
-----Original Message-----
From: ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On ;
Behalf Of Bob Pullen
Sent: 05 June 2020 09:46
To: ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ueb-ed] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Help] Braille notation on consumer
electronics?
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click
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________________________________
Guessing this is probably the ISO for signage/appliances etc -
https://www.iso.org/standard/58086.html ;
<https://www.iso.org/standard/58086.html>
Unfortunately behind a paywall.
Bob.
On 2020-06-03 09:33, Bob Pullen wrote:
Thanks James,
That would be useful, thank you. Feel free to contact me off-list if
needs be.
Bob.
On 2020-06-02 19:16, James Bowden wrote:
Hi Bob,
I just wanted to pick up on the dimensions of braille.
The two links you quoted are respectively the standards from
UKAAF (UK Association for Accessible Formats) and BANA (Braille Authority of
North America). It is quite possible they are different, but there will be a
large degree of commonality.
Please note in particular that the UKAAF document refers to
braille embossed on paper, it specifically does not mention braille embossed on
plastic, metal, signage, equipment, medicine packaging, etc. The factor that
varies quite widely here is the dot height. I have seen 0.25mm (minimum) for
embossing on cardboard packaging (which is pretty flat), ranging through around
the 0.5mm mark (typical for embossing on braille paper), through to 0.8mm for
braille displays and even higher in some cases.
I think there is probably an ISO standard about this, but I
have been unable to find it (I found reference to a document written in German,
but I'm sure something should be in English).
If you are interested, I can put you in touch with our
commercial business services department here at RNIB, who should be able to
advise further.
I trust this helps.
With best regards,
James.
-----Original Message-----
From: ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bob Pullen
Sent: 01 June 2020 20:08
To: ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ueb-ed] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Help] Braille notation on
consumer electronics?
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the
organisation. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the
sender and know the content is safe.
________________________________
Thanks all, this is really helpful :)
Few thoughts based on the replies...
First and foremost, not everyone can read grade 2 (or
contracted) braille, so keep it simple
Noted. I'll have a go at re-mapping the table based on your
suggestions, and stick to alpha-numeric.
... braille is a fixed size which can make things tricky
when labelling. Hence I assume you have a 2 cell limit.
The exact reason I tried to keep to a single character where
possible. To be honest, I think real-estate is going to be a bit of a struggle,
which is why I floated the idea of selectively labelling things. All the ports
etc. have their uses though, so it's a question of what could you 'drop'?
Unless my maths is out, we'd need 1cm width and 0.65cm height
for any cell pairs, not taking into account tolerances or any additional
spacing. To help visualise, I've taken a photo of an early mock-up and
overlayed it with a 1cm x 1cm grid. You'll probably agree that we've not much
to play with! I'm also not sure how the braille contours will play with the
laser printing for the written labels (which aren't in the picture). From left
to right: Broadband, Phone, USB, LAN1, LAN2, LAN3, WAN, Factory Reset
(pinhole), Power Socket, Power Button -
http://bobzilla.uk/ports.jpg ;<http://bobzilla.uk/ports.jpg>
<http://bobzilla.uk/ports.jpg ;<http://bobzilla.uk/ports.jpg> >
On the topic of sizing. Is there a definitive (UK) spec
somewhere that I should be referring to? I've found quite a lot of
contradiction online. e.g. the two links below agree in part, but contain
contradictory sizing for other aspects.
https://www.ukaaf.org/wp-content/uploads/BrailleStandardDimensionsFinal.pdf ;
<https://www.ukaaf.org/wp-content/uploads/BrailleStandardDimensionsFinal.pdf>
<https://www.ukaaf.org/wp-content/uploads/BrailleStandardDimensionsFinal.pdf ;
<https://www.ukaaf.org/wp-content/uploads/BrailleStandardDimensionsFinal.pdf> >
http://www.brailleauthority.org/sizespacingofbraille/sizespacingofbraille.pdf ;
<http://www.brailleauthority.org/sizespacingofbraille/sizespacingofbraille.pdf>
<http://www.brailleauthority.org/sizespacingofbraille/sizespacingofbraille.pdf ;
<http://www.brailleauthority.org/sizespacingofbraille/sizespacingofbraille.pdf>
I have once seen the word ON for a power switch (note,
switch, not button) so the user would know which way to push the switch for
unit to come on.
I also once saw DC for the power socket.
You'll see from the pic that the power socket and button are
pretty close to each other, so I was thinking they could perhaps share a single
label?
... what would also be good to include is the details of
the web key, number and password,
James is right here Alan. There's an approx 5cm x 5cm area for
this info and the passwords are fairly complex by default i.e. 10-12 characters
each. We may add a QR code though that can be scanned by a phone to pick up the
Wi-Fi credentials automatically. Could perhaps label this with a 'QR' or
similar, although I'm guessing this could be a tad misinformed/insensitive
given that pairing using a QR code is a fairly visual process?
no point putting much braille on the device without the
supporting info in braille too.
If the thinking is that it's all or nothing, then that's fine.
I'm loathe to add complexity to proceedings for something if it won't provide
legitimate benefit.
Much appreciated.
Bob.
On 2020-06-01 12:03, James Bowden wrote:
Very good point, Alan,
If I remember, this was just a sticker on a piece of
plastic on the router I got.
There wouldn't be room on that to put the equivalent
braille.
So this should probably be a transcription job onto
ordinary braille paper - probably for those who need it.
I trust this helps.
With best regards,
James.
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Thorpe [
mailto:alan@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] ;
Sent: 01 June 2020 11:59
To: ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; James Bowden
Subject: Re: [ueb-ed] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Help] Braille
notation on consumer electronics?
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the
organisation. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the
sender and know the content is safe.
________________________________
hello
adding to Georges and James comments.
what would also be good to include is the details of the
web key, number
and password, otherwise we will still need to Waite for
sighted
assistance when trying to set up devices, so in the end no
point putting
much braille on the device without the supporting info in
braille too.
sorry if thins makes your product more expensive as each
one would be
individual.
On 01/06/2020 10:54, James Bowden wrote:
Hi Bob,
I would agree with George: keep to just braille letters
if possible and short, because you probably don't have much space.
I have once seen the word ON for a power switch (note,
switch, not button) so the user would know which way to push the switch for
unit to come on.
I also once saw DC for the power socket.
George is also absolutely correct to mention that
braille comes at a fixed size. It is important to follow this, as otherwise the
characters may not be readable. The height and shape of the dots is also
important.
I trust this helps.
James Bowden
Braille Technical Officer
RNIB
-----Original Message-----
From: ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[
mailto:ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 30 May 2020 13:00
To: ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [ueb-ed] Re: [Help] Braille
notation on consumer electronics?
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the
organisation. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the
sender and know the content is safe.
________________________________
Hi Bob,
No problem asking this on braille-uk - I run that too 😊
And well done for even thinking about braille!
First and foremost, not everyone can read grade 2 (or
contracted) braille, so keep it simple
Second, though I suspect you already know, braille is a
fixed size which can make things tricky when labelling. Hence I assume you have
a 2 cell limit.
So to your chart. And bear in mind I am also thinking
as someone who might have to provide end-user support. So signs like "@" and
"!" in braille would not we easily understood by said support person.
Power - P for power is logical
Broadband - suggest BB not @
Phone - suggest PH
Wan Port - suggest WA or WP
Factory Reset - suggest FR not !
Feel free to contact me off list of you wish.
George W F Bell
Managing Director
Techno-Vision Systems Ltd
76 Bunting Road Ind. Est.
NORTHAMPTON, NN2 6EE
United Kingdom.
Tel: +44 (0)160 479 2777
E-Mail: george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web:
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk ;
<
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk> <
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk ;
<
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk> > <
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk ;
<
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk> <
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk ;
<
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk> > > <
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk ;
<
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk> <
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk ;
<
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk> > <
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk ;
<
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk> <
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk ;
<
http://www.techno-vision.co.uk> > > >
-----Original Message-----
From: ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Bob Pullen
Sent: 30 May 2020 09:12
To: ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ueb-ed] [Help] Braille notation on consumer
electronics?
Hi all,
Unsure if this is a good audience to ask, so apologies
if not. I did consider cross-posting to braille-uk but was unsure of etiquette.
I'm currently considering the design of a piece of
consumer electrical equipment and have been toying with the idea of featuring
braille notation on the plastics to specify what various ports/buttons are.
This is completely foreign territory for me though, so I'm wondering...
- If there's already some sort of accepted convention
that exists for labelling common things like power buttons/Wi-Fi etc?
- If this is something that the visually impaired would
actually find useful?
- If so, would the expectation be that all
ports/buttons etc. are labelled, or only certain ones e.g. power?
The equipment in question is a broadband router and
I've had a best effort attempt at what Braille could be used to label the
various buttons etc. You can see that here -
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG ;
<
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG>
<
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG ;
<
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG> >
<
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG ;
<
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG>
<
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG ;
<
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG> > >
<
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG ;
<
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG>
<
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG ;
<
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG> >
<
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG ;
<
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG>
<
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG ;
<
http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG> > > >
Does anyone have any feedback/thoughts/suggestions? Is
it useful? Is the semantic logical?
Best regards,
--
Bob
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9999 or email helpline@xxxxxxxxxxx.
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