Thanks James,
That would be useful, thank you. Feel free to contact me off-list if
needs be.
Bob.
On 2020-06-02 19:16, James Bowden wrote:
Hi Bob,
I just wanted to pick up on the dimensions of braille.
The two links you quoted are respectively the standards from UKAAF (UK
Association for Accessible Formats) and BANA (Braille Authority of North
America). It is quite possible they are different, but there will be a large
degree of commonality.
Please note in particular that the UKAAF document refers to braille embossed on
paper, it specifically does not mention braille embossed on plastic, metal,
signage, equipment, medicine packaging, etc. The factor that varies quite
widely here is the dot height. I have seen 0.25mm (minimum) for embossing on
cardboard packaging (which is pretty flat), ranging through around the 0.5mm
mark (typical for embossing on braille paper), through to 0.8mm for braille
displays and even higher in some cases.
I think there is probably an ISO standard about this, but I have been unable to
find it (I found reference to a document written in German, but I'm sure
something should be in English).
If you are interested, I can put you in touch with our commercial business
services department here at RNIB, who should be able to advise further.
I trust this helps.
With best regards,
James.
-----Original Message-----
From: ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On ;
Behalf Of Bob Pullen
Sent: 01 June 2020 20:08
To: ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ueb-ed] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Help] Braille notation on consumer
electronics?
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click
links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content
is safe.
________________________________
Thanks all, this is really helpful :)
Few thoughts based on the replies...
First and foremost, not everyone can read grade 2 (or contracted) braille, so
keep it simple
Noted. I'll have a go at re-mapping the table based on your suggestions, and
stick to alpha-numeric.
... braille is a fixed size which can make things tricky when labelling. Hence
I assume you have a 2 cell limit.
The exact reason I tried to keep to a single character where possible. To be
honest, I think real-estate is going to be a bit of a struggle, which is why I
floated the idea of selectively labelling things. All the ports etc. have their
uses though, so it's a question of what could you 'drop'?
Unless my maths is out, we'd need 1cm width and 0.65cm height for any cell
pairs, not taking into account tolerances or any additional spacing. To help
visualise, I've taken a photo of an early mock-up and overlayed it with a 1cm x
1cm grid. You'll probably agree that we've not much to play with! I'm also not
sure how the braille contours will play with the laser printing for the written
labels (which aren't in the picture). From left to right: Broadband, Phone,
USB, LAN1, LAN2, LAN3, WAN, Factory Reset (pinhole), Power Socket, Power Button
-
http://bobzilla.uk/ports.jpg <http://bobzilla.uk/ports.jpg>
On the topic of sizing. Is there a definitive (UK) spec somewhere that I should
be referring to? I've found quite a lot of contradiction online. e.g. the two
links below agree in part, but contain contradictory sizing for other aspects.
https://www.ukaaf.org/wp-content/uploads/BrailleStandardDimensionsFinal.pdf <https://www.ukaaf.org/wp-content/uploads/BrailleStandardDimensionsFinal.pdf> http://www.brailleauthority.org/sizespacingofbraille/sizespacingofbraille.pdf <http://www.brailleauthority.org/sizespacingofbraille/sizespacingofbraille.pdf>
I have once seen the word ON for a power switch (note, switch, not button) so
the user would know which way to push the switch for unit to come on.
I also once saw DC for the power socket.
You'll see from the pic that the power socket and button are pretty close to
each other, so I was thinking they could perhaps share a single label?
... what would also be good to include is the details of the web key, number
and password,
James is right here Alan. There's an approx 5cm x 5cm area for this info and
the passwords are fairly complex by default i.e. 10-12 characters each. We may
add a QR code though that can be scanned by a phone to pick up the Wi-Fi
credentials automatically. Could perhaps label this with a 'QR' or similar,
although I'm guessing this could be a tad misinformed/insensitive given that
pairing using a QR code is a fairly visual process?
no point putting much braille on the device without the supporting info in
braille too.
If the thinking is that it's all or nothing, then that's fine. I'm loathe to
add complexity to proceedings for something if it won't provide legitimate
benefit.
Much appreciated.
Bob.
On 2020-06-01 12:03, James Bowden wrote:
Very good point, Alan,
If I remember, this was just a sticker on a piece of plastic on the router I
got.
There wouldn't be room on that to put the equivalent braille.
So this should probably be a transcription job onto ordinary braille paper -
probably for those who need it.
I trust this helps.
With best regards,
James.
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Thorpe [mailto:alan@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: 01 June 2020 11:59
To: ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; James Bowden
Subject: Re: [ueb-ed] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Help] Braille notation on consumer
electronics?
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click
links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content
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________________________________
hello
adding to Georges and James comments.
what would also be good to include is the details of the web key, number and password, otherwise we will still need to Waite for sighted assistance when trying to set up devices, so in the end no point putting much braille on the device without the supporting info in braille too.
sorry if thins makes your product more expensive as each one would be individual.
On 01/06/2020 10:54, James Bowden wrote:
Hi Bob,
I would agree with George: keep to just braille letters if possible and short,
because you probably don't have much space.
I have once seen the word ON for a power switch (note, switch, not button) so
the user would know which way to push the switch for unit to come on.
I also once saw DC for the power socket.
George is also absolutely correct to mention that braille comes at a fixed
size. It is important to follow this, as otherwise the characters may not be
readable. The height and shape of the dots is also important.
I trust this helps.
James Bowden
Braille Technical Officer
RNIB
-----Original Message-----
From: ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On ;
Behalf Of george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 30 May 2020 13:00
To: ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [ueb-ed] Re: [Help] Braille notation on consumer
electronics?
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click
links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content
is safe.
________________________________
Hi Bob,
No problem asking this on braille-uk - I run that too 😊
And well done for even thinking about braille!
First and foremost, not everyone can read grade 2 (or contracted) braille, so
keep it simple
Second, though I suspect you already know, braille is a fixed size which can
make things tricky when labelling. Hence I assume you have a 2 cell limit.
So to your chart. And bear in mind I am also thinking as someone who might have to provide end-user
support. So signs like "@" and "!" in braille would not we easily understood by
said support person.
Power - P for power is logical
Broadband - suggest BB not @
Phone - suggest PH
Wan Port - suggest WA or WP
Factory Reset - suggest FR not !
Feel free to contact me off list of you wish.
George W F Bell
Managing Director
Techno-Vision Systems Ltd
76 Bunting Road Ind. Est.
NORTHAMPTON, NN2 6EE
United Kingdom.
Tel: +44 (0)160 479 2777
E-Mail: george@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web: http://www.techno-vision.co.uk ;<http://www.techno-vision.co.uk> <http://www.techno-vision.co.uk ;
<http://www.techno-vision.co.uk> > <http://www.techno-vision.co.uk ;<http://www.techno-vision.co.uk>
<http://www.techno-vision.co.uk ;<http://www.techno-vision.co.uk> > >
-----Original Message-----
From: ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <ueb-ed-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of
Bob Pullen
Sent: 30 May 2020 09:12
To: ueb-ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ueb-ed] [Help] Braille notation on consumer electronics?
Hi all,
Unsure if this is a good audience to ask, so apologies if not. I did consider
cross-posting to braille-uk but was unsure of etiquette.
I'm currently considering the design of a piece of consumer electrical
equipment and have been toying with the idea of featuring braille notation on
the plastics to specify what various ports/buttons are. This is completely
foreign territory for me though, so I'm wondering...
- If there's already some sort of accepted convention that exists for labelling
common things like power buttons/Wi-Fi etc?
- If this is something that the visually impaired would actually find useful?
- If so, would the expectation be that all ports/buttons etc. are labelled, or
only certain ones e.g. power?
The equipment in question is a broadband router and I've had a best effort attempt at what Braille could be used to label
the various buttons etc. You can see that here - http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG ;
<http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG> <http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG ;
<http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG> > <http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG ;
<http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG> <http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG ;
<http://bobzilla.uk/braille_schematic.JPG> > >
Does anyone have any feedback/thoughts/suggestions? Is it useful? Is the
semantic logical?
Best regards,
--
Bob
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