Exactly. Which is why I pointed out the following in the initial conversation: >3. processor intensive applications like CAD etc (also video intensive I >know) This goes for any resource intensive applications (like development apps, compilers etc.) All I was saying is that a "normal user" with office, some term em, maybe JDE and a couple of other apps doesn't really need a PC in a blade with a terminal on their desk when they are really only using a fraction of the horse power already available to them. It just makes more sense for these normal users and their normal applications to share resources on a server. I just think the blade desktops will me more of an exception or a tool for those types of apps you just mentioned. Ron Oglesby Senior Technical Architect RapidApp Office 312.372.7188 Mobile 815.325.7618 email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Booth [mailto:jennifer.booth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 9:57 AM To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [THIN] Re: Blade Desktops?? Here's my thing though - When you have people who require the horse power and speed to do code review, optimization, and generation - a shared application server won't cut it. We tried this situation in the past, and it brought the entire server to it's knees. We were unsuccessful in getting Rational Rose, Visual Studio and other apps to play nicely together on a terminal server. Sure, it would work for 2 or 3 users, but no one else could do anything. So developers always got their own hardware. But these days you have a single developer working on multiple projects, maybe even multiple generations, and require the supporting environments. Jeez - most of our support people have 3 computers to support different OS's that our software runs on. VMWare is a good solution, but it's slow and can interfere with results, as I found trying to test Siebel Development. That's where I think blade desktop technology is going to ROCK! Jennifer -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 14:03 To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Blade Desktops?? I mean all the points they just brought up are bennies of TS too. I am not saying it wont have a place. BUT Video sucks over thin client protocols and when it doesn't it turns a potential multicast stream into unicast stream. Then beyond that you are still managing the desktops. Anyway like anything else it will have a place. Ron Oglesby Senior Technical Architect RapidApp Office 312.372.7188 Mobile 815.325.7618 email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: Tony Lyne [mailto:Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 3:48 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Blade Desktops?? What about security concerns from man in the middle attacks. Couldn't someone capture keyboard traffic and get passwords? Tony Lyne Senior Systems Engineer Computerland Central P O Box 1470 PALMERSTON NORTH Telephone (+64) 06 3537300 Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800 Mobile (+64) 0274 720696 E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Internet http://www.computerland.co.nz CAUTION: This e-mail message and accompanying data may contain information that is confidential and subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message or data is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately and delete all material pertaining to this e-mail. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Kenzig http://thethin.net [mailto:jimkenz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, 6 November 2003 10:42 a.m. To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Blade Desktops?? I know with the clearcube device you can have up to four users connected to one blade. Does that sweeten the pot? What if they were blade thin clients?? Wouldn't that make an IT managers life a whole lot easier to have all of the guts in the data center? Backups are made easier also. Desktops can still have a floppy or cd drive local if necessary as I understand it. If you are only sending kb/screen over the network is there that much concern about bandwidth? This is an ideal situation I belive just as ICA is. Security concerns can be minimized through network device scanning. Data can be more secured. (Someone can't walk off with a whole drives worth of data if it is locked in the computer center) There are a lot more benefits here than meets the eye. It is a very compelling technology but basically we are going back to the old VMS/HP 3000 days only graphical. If it worked then.... JK -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Ron Oglesby Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 4:30 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Blade Desktops?? I don't know. It's a cool idea from a technology point of view BUT. I mean what it really is is a SINGLE USER TERMINAL SERVER ... that is where the windows XP remote control technology came from anyway. I mean in most cases if a customer is looking to consolidate their PCs into the terminal server arena (the closet the server room etc) there are several common reasons to leave the PC on the desktop Some technical some not: 1. Non-multiuser apps 2. Video intensive apps like Video streaming (that even when done via Citrix and works ok it kills the network because the Citrix traffic that just got FAT is not multi-cast but normal video could be) 3. processor intensive applications like CAD etc (also video intensive I know) 4. Users Want a "PC" on their desktop not a "terminal", need that floppy driver or CD and sound etc. 5. The feeling of taking something away from the user. Etc. Anyway out of those 5 only two would be successful as a replacement for terminal server (Processor intensive and non multiuser apps). The others still leave the same problems terminal servers have. Video transmission (no longer multicast) and run through RDP or a look alike protocol, No PC on the desktop and instead a Terminal . and the users wind up with a feeling they had something taken away. And now you have a bunch of mini-me terminal servers you have to manage. Anyway I see it as another piece in the tool box that may be a pretty small niche at least for a few years. ******************************************************** This Week's Sponsor - RTO Software / TScale What's keeping you from getting more from your terminal servers? Did you know, in most cases, CPU Utilization IS NOT the single biggest constraint to scaling up?! Get this free white paper to understand the real constraints & how to overcome them. SAVE MONEY by scaling-up rather than buying more servers. http://www.rtosoft.com/Enter.asp?ID=147 ********************************************************** Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at: http://thethin.net/links.cfm New! Online Thin Computing Magazine Site http://www.OnDemandAccess.com For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm ******************************************************** This Week's Sponsor - RTO Software / TScale What's keeping you from getting more from your terminal servers? Did you know, in most cases, CPU Utilization IS NOT the single biggest constraint to scaling up?! Get this free white paper to understand the real constraints & how to overcome them. SAVE MONEY by scaling-up rather than buying more servers. http://www.rtosoft.com/Enter.asp?ID=147 ********************************************************** Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at: http://thethin.net/links.cfm New! Online Thin Computing Magazine Site http://www.OnDemandAccess.com For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm ******************************************************** This Week's Sponsor - RTO Software / TScale What's keeping you from getting more from your terminal servers? Did you know, in most cases, CPU Utilization IS NOT the single biggest constraint to scaling up?! Get this free white paper to understand the real constraints & how to overcome them. SAVE MONEY by scaling-up rather than buying more servers. http://www.rtosoft.com/Enter.asp?ID=147 ********************************************************** Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at: http://thethin.net/links.cfm New! Online Thin Computing Magazine Site http://www.OnDemandAccess.com For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm ******************************************************** This Week's Sponsor - RTO Software / TScale What's keeping you from getting more from your terminal servers? Did you know, in most cases, CPU Utilization IS NOT the single biggest constraint to scaling up?! Get this free white paper to understand the real constraints & how to overcome them. SAVE MONEY by scaling-up rather than buying more servers. http://www.rtosoft.com/Enter.asp?ID=147 ********************************************************** Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at: http://thethin.net/links.cfm New! Online Thin Computing Magazine Site http://www.OnDemandAccess.com For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm ******************************************************** This Week's Sponsor - RTO Software / TScale What's keeping you from getting more from your terminal servers? Did you know, in most cases, CPU Utilization IS NOT the single biggest constraint to scaling up?! Get this free white paper to understand the real constraints & how to overcome them. SAVE MONEY by scaling-up rather than buying more servers. http://www.rtosoft.com/Enter.asp?ID=147 ********************************************************** Useful Thin Client Computing Links are available at: http://thethin.net/links.cfm New! Online Thin Computing Magazine Site http://www.OnDemandAccess.com For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm