[TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
- From: gulftech@xxxxxxxx
- To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 21:30:14 -0500
Techs,
Tantalum capacitors are fairly rare and, in my experience, rarely fail.
The question I have is why is a tantalum cap used? Also, can one be
replaced by a regular electrolytic? From my memory, tantalum caps are
smaller and more stable. That's all I remember. Size, at least in TV's,
is rarely as issue. Stability must be the issue, since I only remember
ever seeing them in timing circuits.
This may seem academic to many on this list, but, to me, it is important.
If our only objective is to get the product out the door, get our money,
and let the marbles roll, then it doesn't matter at all. If, on the
other hand, we view ourselves as professionals, we replace defective
parts including those READY to cause problems, (i.e. the many leaking
caps in Mitsubishi or Hitachi TV's, and Sony or Sharp camcorders) and
replace those parts with equal or superior parts, so there is a
reasonable expectation of no customer dissatisfaction.
I look forward to those knowledgeable to respond.
Regards,
Ken Smith
Gulf Technical Services
3034 Gulf Breeze Parkway
Gulf Breeze, FL 32563
850-934-8324 (Voice) 850-932-0819 (Fax)
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 21:36:10 -0400 "Teltek3" <teltek3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
writes:
> Leonard;
> As far as make up of Capacitors, Chemical, or Electronic, I will not
> comment. I follow the rules of reason. Maybe a subject to discuss
> with Wayne
> V.
> Problem with some electrolytic, you really don't suspect them,
> till you
> remove them, by the "fishy" smell, or Leakage. Some are noticeable
> to leak
> thru on the board.
> This is not a subject to explore to far...and most of us know
> it. I have
> been with it since 63..and we learn something new each day. When we
> stop
> learning..may be time to pack it up. I will have a look and see if I
> can
> find the Tantulum modification, I'll send it along.
> I appreciate your input..and keep in touch.
>
> -Ed-
> Ed Gaidies
> Tel-Tek Electronics
> Ontario-Canada
> teltek3@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Leonard Caillouet" <lcaillo@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 9:19 PM
> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
>
>
> > I am not sure what you mean by "I have the floor". Everyone's
> input
> should
> > be welcome. If you are commenting on my tendency to run on about
> topics,
> > well, I am guilty as charged. I was simply trying to clarify who
> "they"
> are
> > and understand the rationale. It seems clear to me, in theory,
> that a
> > tantalum cap should be more stable, but in practice electrolytics,
> aside
> > from the batches of bad caps that we have all seen, last pretty
> well
> through
> > the life of most consumer electronics. If there is a compelling
> reason to
> > switch cap types I'd like to know about it. The question is
> whether the
> > advantages outweigh the costs. Also, as I mentioned before, there
> were
> > batches of bad tantalum caps that probably colored the opinion of
> many
> > regarding their use.
> >
> > That was the time period where I was out of the repair business
> for a few
> > years teaching, so I never would have seen that service bulletin.
> I'll
> look
> > for it. I like to know as much as possible about the sets that I
> service
> > and apparently this is one that I missed.
> >
> > Who ever said anything about changing all of the electrolytics in
> anything?
> > It has become our practice on some Mitsubishi products from this
> era, this
> > set included (and the v11 & v12 RPTV chassis) to check all of the
> > electrolytics because they obviously had batches of caps made by
> Nichicon,
> > Rubycon, and SME during this period that did not last as they
> should.
> These
> > sets have proven to be a real problem for recalls if you don't get
> all of
> > the leaky caps. We do not change caps that do not show some form
> of
> defect,
> > but check them all for ESR, value, and dc leakage in circuit,
> inspect them
> > for evidence of electrolyte leakage, visually and with the "smell"
> test by
> > resoldering the leads. If you don't on many of these sets you are
> going
> to
> > miss problems about to happen and the set will be back, sometimes
> with
> very
> > strange problems.
> >
> > As for Mitsubishi products in general, they seem to have to learn
> the
> lesson
> > repeatedly to stick with what they do well. They have been into
> all of
> the
> > electronics types you mentioned and have cut back to just big
> screen TV in
> > the US. Many of their efforts in other areas were a disaster.
> Some were
> > actually pretty good. Their RPTVs are still among the best IMO
> and as a
> > manufacturer they have the best customer relations of any of the
> companies
> > that I deal with.
> >
> > Leonard Caillouet
> > Electronics World
> > Gainesville, FL
> > 352-332-5608
> > 352-332-5668 fax
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Teltek3" <teltek3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 8:46 PM
> > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> >
> >
> > > Leonard;
> > > You have the floor...I only mentioned that Back around 94-95
> Mitsubishi
> > > recommended changing the 1uf/35 volts with a tantalum capacitor.
> One of
> > > their few Service Bulletins they seem to put out. I can dig it
> up if
> need
> > > be.
> > > I have no idea, and will not try to state why, since I do
> not do
> > enough
> > > of them to waste my time. It just seems to me that electrolytic
> were not
> > one
> > > of Mitsubishi's high points, either by circuit design, or just
> lousy
> > > electrolytic.
> > > Every manufacturer seems to have a breakdown rate on these,
> and
> > probably
> > > 105 deg. caps will not change this. At least most of us have
> learned,
> with
> > > time and experience, what the week points are...but never have I
> seen a
> > > product, that a Technician recommends to change all
> "electrolytics".
> > > Mitsubishi has left Canada...as far as
> Electronics...hopefully their
> > > cars do not display the same symptoms at someone elses
> expense...could
> be
> > > more life threatning.
> > > BTW..if you have been doing Mitsubishi Electronics for a
> while, do
> you
> > > remember their Car Audio Products, Home Stereos, and Portable
> Audio
> > > Products...I rest my case.
> > > Technology was great as far as VCR's were concerned. I went
> thru all
> > > their products here because we had the Picture Tube plant in our
> town,
> and
> > > Employees bought the product at Employee's Discounts, so I saw
> them all.
> > > I was the Warranty Depot.
> > >
> > > -Ed-
> > > Ed Gaidies
> > > Tel-Tek Electronics
> > > Ontario-Canada
> > > teltek3@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Leonard Caillouet" <lcaillo@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 8:20 PM
> > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > >
> > >
> > > > I'm confused. Who is recommending replacing electrolytics with
> Tantalum
> > > > caps? I have not heard this from Mits. Did I miss something?
> We do
> > > these
> > > > sets frequently and have to change lots of caps, but never
> changed the
> > > type.
> > > > Typically tantalum caps should maintain a more stable
> capacitance and
> > ESR
> > > > over time where electrolytics do degrade, so there should be
> nothing
> > wrong
> > > > with replacing an electrolytic with a tantalum cap, but I have
> never
> > seen
> > > a
> > > > recommendation to do so. In fact, as I understand it is
> getting
> harder
> > to
> > > > get tantalum caps and manufacturers are pushing the ceramic
> technology
> > for
> > > > use as replacements in SMDs. Seems unnecessary to me.
> > > >
> > > > I agree, I would not replace a tantalum with an electrolytic,
> although
> > it
> > > > would likely work fine in the short term, maybe even over
> time. In
> > fact,
> > > > since the runs of bad tantalum caps in the 80s I have had very
> few of
> > them
> > > > fail at all. I keep a bin of assorted tantalum caps from
> scrappers in
> > > case
> > > > I need one, but can't remember the last time I did.
> > > >
> > > > The CK3531 is one of the sets, BTW, that we will no longer
> service
> > unless
> > > we
> > > > test ALL of the electrolytics. We have seen to many recalls
> when
> > > repairing
> > > > only the immediate problems. Typically we find one or two
> dozen leaky
> > and
> > > > high ESR electrolytics in these sets.
> > > >
> > > > Leonard Caillouet
> > > > Electronics World
> > > > Gainesville, FL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Teltek3" <teltek3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 7:11 PM
> > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Tony...
> > > > > In vertical circuits (timing) they even reccomend to change
> the
> > > > > electrolytics(1 to 2.2 ufd) with tantalums..so you are sort
> of
> > > > backtracking.
> > > > > Electrolytics will eventually fail, although I can not tell
> you why,
> > or
> > > > the
> > > > > chemical makeup of the tantelums.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Ed-
> > > > > Ed Gaidies
> > > > > Tel-Tek Electronics
> > > > > Ontario-Canada
> > > > > teltek3@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "tony saracco" <tcselectronics@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 3:28 PM
> > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > terry,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > what type of problem do you see if the 1uf 50v tant. cap is
> replaced
> > > > with
> > > > > a
> > > > > > standard 1uf lytic. I have replaced many and never really
> had any
> > > > > problems.
> > > > > > Just curious.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tony Saracco
> > > > > > TCS ELECTRONICS
> > > > > > Elgin , IL 60120
> > > > > > 847-695-1928
> > > > > > tcselectronics@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Terry H." <tvdoc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 10:09 AM
> > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > You're going to find two 100/35volt caps that need
> changing as
> > well
> > > as
> > > > a
> > > > > > > 1uf/50volt tantalum that should always be changed while
> you're
> in
> > > > there.
> > > > > > > They might be using a small purple 'OSCON' cap that
> looks like a
> > > > normal
> > > > > > > electrolytic, but needs to be replaced with a tantalum
> or the
> > exact.
> > > > > Hard
> > > > > > > lesson if you use a standard electrolytic in it's place.
> > > > > > > Terry H.
> > > > > > > The TV Shop
> > > > > > > Gonzales, Tx
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Ed" <edb3@xxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 10:37 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ok, thanks
> > > > > > > > Ed
> > > > > > > > Video Pro-Tech
> > > > > > > > Mesa Az
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "al m" <ampm@xxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:35 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Don't have the exact #'s But find the 24V line off
> the
> flyback
> > > and
> > > > > > check
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > filter cap.
> > > > > > > > > al marquardt
> > > > > > > > > ampm@xxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > Al Marquardt Electronic Repair
> > > > > > > > > 206 W Main
> > > > > > > > > Girardville Pa. 17935
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: "Ed" <edb3@xxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:32 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yes, but have worked on very few mitsubishi tv's,
> my
> > expertise
> > > > is
> > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > > > video cameras, have been out of tv's for a long
> time, im
> > sure
> > > > ill
> > > > > > > > figure
> > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > out, was just hoping to get some help to save time
> > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > From: "al m" <ampm@xxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:24 PM
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You're not a tech are you?
> > > > > > > > > > > al marquardt
> > > > > > > > > > > ampm@xxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > > Al Marquardt Electronic Repair
> > > > > > > > > > > 206 W Main
> > > > > > > > > > > Girardville Pa. 17935
> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: "Ed" <edb3@xxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:20 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > can you tell me what the caps are? c??? Dont
> have a
> > > > schematic,
> > > > > > im
> > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > sure
> > > > > > > > > > > > what cap it is your talking about
> > > > > > > > > > > > ED
> > > > > > > > > > > > Video Pro-Tech
> > > > > > > > > > > > Mesa AZ
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > > From: "al m" <ampm@xxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 7:58 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace also the B+ cap for the vertical off
> the
> > > flyback.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > al marquardt
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ampm@xxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Al Marquardt Electronic Repair
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 206 W Main
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Girardville Pa. 17935
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Ed" <edb3@xxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:01 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This tv has retrace lines and vertical
> foldover at
> > the
> > > > top
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > picture
> > > > > > > > > > > > > for the first 2 or 3 min , after warm is ok.
> I dont
> > have
> > > a
> > > > > > > > shematic
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > > > set, im sure its a cap, anyone had this
> problem that
> > can
> > > > > tell
> > > > > > me
> > > > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > > > caps
> > > > > > > > > > > > > usually fail? thx
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Video Pro-Tech
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesa Az
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
*************************************************************************
***
> > > > > > > > *
> > > > > > > > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > > > > > > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > > > > > > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > > > > > > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email
> Address:
> > > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > > > > > > > Lost Password:
> > > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your
> Login
> > Info?".
> > > > > > > > > Email Archives:
> > > > > > > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
*************************************************************************
***
> > > > > > > *
> > > > > > > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > > > > > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > > > > > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > > > > > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email
> Address:
> > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > > > > > > Lost Password:
> > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login
> Info?".
> > > > > > > > Email Archives:
> > > > > > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Scanned by AwesomeNet Anti-Virus]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Scanned by AwesomeNet Anti-Virus]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
*************************************************************************
***
> > > > > > *
> > > > > > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > > > > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > > > > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > > > > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email
> Address:
> > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > > > > > Lost Password:
> > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login
> Info?".
> > > > > > > Email Archives:
> > > > > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
*************************************************************************
***
> > > > > *
> > > > > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > > > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > > > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > > > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
> > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > > > > Lost Password:
> > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login
> Info?".
> > > > > > Email Archives:
> > > > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
*************************************************************************
***
> > > > *
> > > > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
> > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > > > Lost Password:
> > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login
> Info?".
> > > > > Email Archives:
> > > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
*************************************************************************
***
> > > *
> > > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
> > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > > Lost Password:
> > > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login Info?".
> > > > Email Archives:
> > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
*************************************************************************
***
> > *
> > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
> > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > Lost Password:
> > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login Info?".
> > > Email Archives:
> > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
*************************************************************************
***
> *
> > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > The Tech Address Book:
> > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
> > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > Lost Password:
> > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login Info?".
> > Email Archives:
> > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
>
>
*************************************************************************
****
> Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> http://sell.tech-assist.org
> The Tech Address Book:
> http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
> http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> Lost Password:
> http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login Info?".
> Email Archives:
> //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
>
________________________________________________________________
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*****************************************************************************
Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
http://sell.tech-assist.org
The Tech Address Book:
http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
Lost Password:
http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login Info?".
Email Archives:
//www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
Other related posts:
