[TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
- From: "Leonard Caillouet" <lcaillo@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 21:19:50 -0400
I am not sure what you mean by "I have the floor". Everyone's input should
be welcome. If you are commenting on my tendency to run on about topics,
well, I am guilty as charged. I was simply trying to clarify who "they" are
and understand the rationale. It seems clear to me, in theory, that a
tantalum cap should be more stable, but in practice electrolytics, aside
from the batches of bad caps that we have all seen, last pretty well through
the life of most consumer electronics. If there is a compelling reason to
switch cap types I'd like to know about it. The question is whether the
advantages outweigh the costs. Also, as I mentioned before, there were
batches of bad tantalum caps that probably colored the opinion of many
regarding their use.
That was the time period where I was out of the repair business for a few
years teaching, so I never would have seen that service bulletin. I'll look
for it. I like to know as much as possible about the sets that I service
and apparently this is one that I missed.
Who ever said anything about changing all of the electrolytics in anything?
It has become our practice on some Mitsubishi products from this era, this
set included (and the v11 & v12 RPTV chassis) to check all of the
electrolytics because they obviously had batches of caps made by Nichicon,
Rubycon, and SME during this period that did not last as they should. These
sets have proven to be a real problem for recalls if you don't get all of
the leaky caps. We do not change caps that do not show some form of defect,
but check them all for ESR, value, and dc leakage in circuit, inspect them
for evidence of electrolyte leakage, visually and with the "smell" test by
resoldering the leads. If you don't on many of these sets you are going to
miss problems about to happen and the set will be back, sometimes with very
strange problems.
As for Mitsubishi products in general, they seem to have to learn the lesson
repeatedly to stick with what they do well. They have been into all of the
electronics types you mentioned and have cut back to just big screen TV in
the US. Many of their efforts in other areas were a disaster. Some were
actually pretty good. Their RPTVs are still among the best IMO and as a
manufacturer they have the best customer relations of any of the companies
that I deal with.
Leonard Caillouet
Electronics World
Gainesville, FL
352-332-5608
352-332-5668 fax
----- Original Message -----
From: "Teltek3" <teltek3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 8:46 PM
Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> Leonard;
> You have the floor...I only mentioned that Back around 94-95 Mitsubishi
> recommended changing the 1uf/35 volts with a tantalum capacitor. One of
> their few Service Bulletins they seem to put out. I can dig it up if need
> be.
> I have no idea, and will not try to state why, since I do not do
enough
> of them to waste my time. It just seems to me that electrolytic were not
one
> of Mitsubishi's high points, either by circuit design, or just lousy
> electrolytic.
> Every manufacturer seems to have a breakdown rate on these, and
probably
> 105 deg. caps will not change this. At least most of us have learned, with
> time and experience, what the week points are...but never have I seen a
> product, that a Technician recommends to change all "electrolytics".
> Mitsubishi has left Canada...as far as Electronics...hopefully their
> cars do not display the same symptoms at someone elses expense...could be
> more life threatning.
> BTW..if you have been doing Mitsubishi Electronics for a while, do you
> remember their Car Audio Products, Home Stereos, and Portable Audio
> Products...I rest my case.
> Technology was great as far as VCR's were concerned. I went thru all
> their products here because we had the Picture Tube plant in our town, and
> Employees bought the product at Employee's Discounts, so I saw them all.
> I was the Warranty Depot.
>
> -Ed-
> Ed Gaidies
> Tel-Tek Electronics
> Ontario-Canada
> teltek3@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Leonard Caillouet" <lcaillo@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 8:20 PM
> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
>
>
> > I'm confused. Who is recommending replacing electrolytics with Tantalum
> > caps? I have not heard this from Mits. Did I miss something? We do
> these
> > sets frequently and have to change lots of caps, but never changed the
> type.
> > Typically tantalum caps should maintain a more stable capacitance and
ESR
> > over time where electrolytics do degrade, so there should be nothing
wrong
> > with replacing an electrolytic with a tantalum cap, but I have never
seen
> a
> > recommendation to do so. In fact, as I understand it is getting harder
to
> > get tantalum caps and manufacturers are pushing the ceramic technology
for
> > use as replacements in SMDs. Seems unnecessary to me.
> >
> > I agree, I would not replace a tantalum with an electrolytic, although
it
> > would likely work fine in the short term, maybe even over time. In
fact,
> > since the runs of bad tantalum caps in the 80s I have had very few of
them
> > fail at all. I keep a bin of assorted tantalum caps from scrappers in
> case
> > I need one, but can't remember the last time I did.
> >
> > The CK3531 is one of the sets, BTW, that we will no longer service
unless
> we
> > test ALL of the electrolytics. We have seen to many recalls when
> repairing
> > only the immediate problems. Typically we find one or two dozen leaky
and
> > high ESR electrolytics in these sets.
> >
> > Leonard Caillouet
> > Electronics World
> > Gainesville, FL
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Teltek3" <teltek3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 7:11 PM
> > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> >
> >
> > > Tony...
> > > In vertical circuits (timing) they even reccomend to change the
> > > electrolytics(1 to 2.2 ufd) with tantalums..so you are sort of
> > backtracking.
> > > Electrolytics will eventually fail, although I can not tell you why,
or
> > the
> > > chemical makeup of the tantelums.
> > >
> > > -Ed-
> > > Ed Gaidies
> > > Tel-Tek Electronics
> > > Ontario-Canada
> > > teltek3@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "tony saracco" <tcselectronics@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 3:28 PM
> > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > >
> > >
> > > > terry,
> > > >
> > > > what type of problem do you see if the 1uf 50v tant. cap is replaced
> > with
> > > a
> > > > standard 1uf lytic. I have replaced many and never really had any
> > > problems.
> > > > Just curious.
> > > >
> > > > Tony Saracco
> > > > TCS ELECTRONICS
> > > > Elgin , IL 60120
> > > > 847-695-1928
> > > > tcselectronics@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Terry H." <tvdoc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 10:09 AM
> > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > You're going to find two 100/35volt caps that need changing as
well
> as
> > a
> > > > > 1uf/50volt tantalum that should always be changed while you're in
> > there.
> > > > > They might be using a small purple 'OSCON' cap that looks like a
> > normal
> > > > > electrolytic, but needs to be replaced with a tantalum or the
exact.
> > > Hard
> > > > > lesson if you use a standard electrolytic in it's place.
> > > > > Terry H.
> > > > > The TV Shop
> > > > > Gonzales, Tx
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Ed" <edb3@xxxxxxx>
> > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 10:37 PM
> > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > ok, thanks
> > > > > > Ed
> > > > > > Video Pro-Tech
> > > > > > Mesa Az
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "al m" <ampm@xxxxxxx>
> > > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:35 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Don't have the exact #'s But find the 24V line off the flyback
> and
> > > > check
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > filter cap.
> > > > > > > al marquardt
> > > > > > > ampm@xxxxxxx
> > > > > > > Al Marquardt Electronic Repair
> > > > > > > 206 W Main
> > > > > > > Girardville Pa. 17935
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Ed" <edb3@xxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:32 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, but have worked on very few mitsubishi tv's, my
expertise
> > is
> > > > > really
> > > > > > > > video cameras, have been out of tv's for a long time, im
sure
> > ill
> > > > > > figure
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > out, was just hoping to get some help to save time
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "al m" <ampm@xxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:24 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You're not a tech are you?
> > > > > > > > > al marquardt
> > > > > > > > > ampm@xxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > Al Marquardt Electronic Repair
> > > > > > > > > 206 W Main
> > > > > > > > > Girardville Pa. 17935
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: "Ed" <edb3@xxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:20 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > can you tell me what the caps are? c??? Dont have a
> > schematic,
> > > > im
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > sure
> > > > > > > > > > what cap it is your talking about
> > > > > > > > > > ED
> > > > > > > > > > Video Pro-Tech
> > > > > > > > > > Mesa AZ
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > From: "al m" <ampm@xxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 7:58 PM
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Replace also the B+ cap for the vertical off the
> flyback.
> > > > > > > > > > > al marquardt
> > > > > > > > > > > ampm@xxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > > Al Marquardt Electronic Repair
> > > > > > > > > > > 206 W Main
> > > > > > > > > > > Girardville Pa. 17935
> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: "Ed" <edb3@xxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:01 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] mitsubishi tv CK3531R
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > This tv has retrace lines and vertical foldover at
the
> > top
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > picture
> > > > > > > > > > > for the first 2 or 3 min , after warm is ok. I dont
have
> a
> > > > > > shematic
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > set, im sure its a cap, anyone had this problem that
can
> > > tell
> > > > me
> > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > caps
> > > > > > > > > > > usually fail? thx
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ed
> > > > > > > > > > > > Video Pro-Tech
> > > > > > > > > > > > Mesa Az
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
****************************************************************************
> > > > > > > > > > > *
> > > > > > > > > > > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > > > > > > > > > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > > > > > > > > > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > > > > > > > > > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email
> > > Address:
> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > > > > > > > > > > Lost Password:
> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your
> Login
> > > > > Info?".
> > > > > > > > > > > > Email Archives:
> > > > > > > > > > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
****************************************************************************
> > > > > > > > > > *
> > > > > > > > > > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > > > > > > > > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > > > > > > > > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > > > > > > > > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email
> > Address:
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > > > > > > > > > Lost Password:
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your
Login
> > > > Info?".
> > > > > > > > > > > Email Archives:
> > > > > > > > > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
****************************************************************************
> > > > > > > > > *
> > > > > > > > > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > > > > > > > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > > > > > > > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > > > > > > > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email
> Address:
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > > > > > > > > Lost Password:
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login
> > > Info?".
> > > > > > > > > > Email Archives:
> > > > > > > > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
****************************************************************************
> > > > > > > > *
> > > > > > > > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > > > > > > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > > > > > > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > > > > > > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email
Address:
> > > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > > > > > > > Lost Password:
> > > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login
> > Info?".
> > > > > > > > > Email Archives:
> > > > > > > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
****************************************************************************
> >
> > > > > > > *
> > > > > > > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > > > > > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > > > > > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > > > > > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
> > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > > > > > > Lost Password:
> > > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login
> Info?".
> > > > > > > > Email Archives:
> > > > > > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
****************************************************************************
> > > > > > *
> > > > > > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > > > > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > > > > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > > > > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
> > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > > > > > Lost Password:
> > > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login
Info?".
> > > > > > > Email Archives:
> > > > > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
****************************************************************************
> > > > > *
> > > > > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > > > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > > > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > > > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
> > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > > > > Lost Password:
> > > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login Info?".
> > > > > > Email Archives:
> > > > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Scanned by AwesomeNet Anti-Virus]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Scanned by AwesomeNet Anti-Virus]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
****************************************************************************
> > > > *
> > > > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
> > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > > > Lost Password:
> > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login Info?".
> > > > > Email Archives:
> > > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
****************************************************************************
> > > *
> > > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
> > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > > Lost Password:
> > > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login Info?".
> > > > Email Archives:
> > > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
****************************************************************************
> > *
> > > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > > The Tech Address Book:
> > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
> > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > > Lost Password:
> > > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login Info?".
> > > Email Archives:
> > > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
****************************************************************************
> *
> > Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> > http://sell.tech-assist.org
> > The Tech Address Book:
> > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> > Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
> > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> > Lost Password:
> > http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login Info?".
> > Email Archives:
> > //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
> >
>
>
****************************************************************************
*
> Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
> http://sell.tech-assist.org
> The Tech Address Book:
> http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
> Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
> http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
> Lost Password:
> http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login Info?".
> Email Archives:
> //www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
>
*****************************************************************************
Classifieds! Buy or Sell!
http://sell.tech-assist.org
The Tech Address Book:
http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/contact.htm
Add a Repair Tip Here, or Change/Remove your Email Address:
http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.htm
Lost Password:
http://www.tech-assist.org and select "Lost your Login Info?".
Email Archives:
//www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/
Other related posts:
