Fab! Thanks David. That’s useful. But how to write it when one language goes
left to right and one right to left! Suppose the same for Arabic….Maybe
diagonal lines would work
From: <sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of David Rose
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply to: "sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Saturday, 18 June 2022 at 9:20 pm
To: "sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [sys-func] Re: Word: Special issues on the nominal group
The translation to English is the nub, but it’s complex. Re-instantiating a
clause in another lg to an English clause actually involves several steps.
First at word and morpheme ranks, each item is re-instantiated, either as an
English lexical item, or a grammatical function label if there is no equivalent
English item, e.g. absolutive and locative case, and 3s.poss (his/her)...
wamgiid
-a
barrngka
-a
niwan
-ji
nal
-i
one
abs
waterlily
abs
3s.poss
loc
head
loc
This is the only step that’s normally made explicit in descriptive lx. Then it
typically jumps straight to a ‘free translation’... actually a clause rank
gloss, with intermediate steps re-instantiated in the linguist’s head.
There is actually at least a group rank step involved, re-instantiating the
source lg groups into English group/phrases...
‘one waterlily / on his/her head’
In SFL we reinstantiate the groups not as glosses, but as function labels...
one
abs
waterlily
abs
3s.poss
loc
head
loc
Carrier
Attribute
We may also need to reinstantiate each item in the groups as function labels...
one
abs
waterlily
abs
3s.poss
loc
head
loc
Carrier
Attribute
Deictic
Thing
Deictic
Thing
But a clause gloss usually requires going beyond the clause grammar. Here the
owner of the head was a man bursting out of the earth, and the time setting of
the story was the past. As Themes are definite in this lg, ‘one’ functions to
present the waterlily as indefinite. So the English clause gloss becomes...
‘a waterlily was on his head’
That’s where ‘was’ comes in ;-
From: sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf
of Yaegan Doran <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Saturday, 18 June 2022 at 2:46 pm
To: sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [sys-func] Re: Word: Special issues on the nominal group
It's pretty common in languages across the world for relationals or some
subtypes of relational to not have a Process, which is the case in
Pitjantjatjara (correct me if I'm wrong though David). For example taking some
languages from the special issues, it's also the case in Sundanese, Tagalog and
British Sign Language. The 'was' arises purely from the translation to English.
________________________________
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of Shoshana Dreyfus <shooshi@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 2:19 pm
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Subject: [sys-func] Re: Word: Special issues on the nominal group
CAUTION:This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click
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so which bit is “was”?
From: <sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of David Rose
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply to: "sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Friday, 17 June 2022 at 8:40 pm
To: "sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [sys-func] Re: Word: Special issues on the nominal group
In many Australian languages, the nominal group inflection may be repeated on
each element in the group... makes it clear what’s in the group. Like this
verbless attributive clause in Kayardid (Gulf of Carpentaria), so we can tell
what’s Carrier and what’s Attribute.
wamgiid
-a
barrngka
-a
niwan
-ji
nal
-i
one
abs
waterlily
abs
3s.poss
loc
head
loc
Carrier
Attribute
Deictic
Thing
Deictic
Thing
A waterlily was on his head
David
From: sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf
of Shoshana Dreyfus <shooshi@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Friday, 17 June 2022 at 5:44 pm
To: sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [sys-func] Re: Word: Special issues on the nominal group
I'd love to do it on Hebrew – in another life perhaps….but just out of interest:
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog translates as (reading from left
to right):
השיעל החום המהר קפץ מעל הכלב העצלן
And translated exactly as:
The fox the brown the quick jumped from on the dog the lazy
So all premodification is listed after the Thing with “the” in front of it!
From: <sys-func-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Yaegan Doran
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply to: "sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Friday, 17 June 2022 at 1:34 pm
To: SYSFLING <SYSFLING@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "asflanet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
<asflanet@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, sys-func <sys-func@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [sys-func] Word: Special issues on the nominal group
Hi all,
Just an announcement that the fourth and final issue in a series published by
Word on: The Grammar of Nominal Groups: Systemic Functional Linguistics
Perspectives has just been published:
https://www.tandfonline.com/toc/rwrd20/68/2?nav=tocList<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tandfonline.com%2Ftoc%2Frwrd20%2F68%2F2%3Fnav%3DtocList&data=05%7C01%7Cyaegan.doran%40acu.edu.au%7Cf9d40a2866a44d10b88108da50e1c293%7C429af009f196448fae7958c212a0f2ce%7C0%7C0%7C637911227858647835%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5B3FqKGYLfePpSLAXoIlNk3lmgd0Q51%2FA6p5hCW8a6A%3D&reserved=0>
This series, edited by J.R. Martin, Dongbing Zhang and myself, has brought
together scholar from across the world to describe nominal groups using SFL in
13 languages. In doing so, a number of descriptive and theoretical issues have
been pushed by the various authors, and the breadth of SFL language description
has been significantly increased. The papers are consistently fantastic, in my
opinion! Thanks to the authors for all their excellent work. And big thanks as
well to Jonathan Webster and Peggy Tse for giving us the opportunity and
supporting us along the way.
If you are interested in language description or applications of SFL in
languages other than English, I thoroughly encourage you to have a read – and
to think about doing some work on a language of your own! If you don’t have
access, you can contact the authors who I’m sure will be happy to pass on a
copy.
The full list of papers are:
Special issue 1 – Word 67.3 2021
[1] Martin, Doran and Zhang – Nominal group grammar: System and structure.
[2] Mwinlaaru – deixis in the Dagaare nominal group: Syntagmatic and
paradigmatic perspectives
[3] Wang – Nominal group system and structure in Lhasa Tibetan
[4] Zhang – The nominal group in Khorchin Mongolian: A Systemic Functional
perspective
[5] Matin and Shin – Korean nominal groups: System and structure.
Special issue 2a: Word 67.4 2021
[6] Stosic – Serbian nominal groups: System and structure
[7] Figueredo – The nominal group in Brazilian Portuguese
[8] Cummings – Interpreting the Old English nominal group from a parsed corpus
Special issue 2b: Word 68.1 2022
[9] Porter and Land – The Ancient Greek nominal group, with attention to the
Greek New Testament
[10] Rose – Nominal groups in Pitjantjatjara
Special issue 3: Word 68.2 2022
[11] Rudge – The nominal group in British Sign Language: A preliminary
description.
[12] Hao and Wang – Chinese nominal groups: The metaphorical realisation of
figures.
[13] Doran and Bangga – Sundanese nominal groups: Meaning in text
[14] Martin and Cruz – Re/construing our world: An ecolinguistic perspective on
Tagalog nominal group resources
Yaegan
Y. J. DORAN
AUSTRALIAN CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY