[sparkscoffee] Re: Viet Nam, success or failure?

From: "" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> (Redacted sender "Sblumen123@xxxxxxx" for DMARC)
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 17:10:21 -0400 (EDT)
Good Grief Lee
Why does he need Generals and advisers so as to not take their  advise?
 
Think, think, think.
 
 
In a message dated 8/18/2014 4:54:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
pixiehat@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:

Good Grief Stan,
That's part of the presidents  job.  If he doesnt have time for doing his 
job, I would guess he needs to  find another less demanding job.



On 8/18/2014 1:36 PM,  (Redacted sender _Sblumen123@aol.com_ 
(mailto:Sblumen123@xxxxxxx)  for DMARC)  wrote:


Lee
Happy to see you were against the war but when does a President have  the 
time and training to dictate
where the bombs should be dropped and why does he need generals to win  or 
lose a war and since when did you become such an expert? Man-o-man think,  
think, think and think again.
 
Comrade B
 
 
In a message dated 8/18/2014 12:57:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
_pixiehat@charter.net_ (mailto:pixiehat@xxxxxxxxxxx)  writes:

Once again Stan, you resort to name calling  when you cant find facts to 
defend your position.  It was, of  course,
the president that ordered the napalm, agent orange, and bombs  to be 
dropped.  He also told them where 
they were to be  dropped.  

I am not defending our war in Vietnam.  I,  like Ali, am very much against 
it.  We were participating in a civil  war and
had no business doing so.  I consider our presidents who  waged the war, 
war criminals.  I live with the fact that
every  time I squeezed the trigger, I was attempting murder.  I should have 
 shown the courage that Ali showed and
simply not gone.  I was  ignorant at the time and felt that I was actually 
doing something to pay  back the debt I 
owed my country.  I had not, at that time, truly  read the constitution.  
Not all war protesters were alike  however.
I consider Jane Fondas actions reprehensible.   

You, Stan, are ignoring history.

Lee


On  8/18/2014 12:08 AM, (Redacted sender _Sblumen123@aol.com_ 
(mailto:Sblumen123@xxxxxxx)  for DMARC) wrote:


JS & Lee
The two warriors that were there. Didn't know Walter Cronkite was a  
general? Why did President
Johnson announced so dramatically not to run for a 2nd term? Who  ordered 
Napalm, Agent Orange 
and all that bomb tonnage to be dropped on a poor, former  colonial, 
agricultural country? How much
lives and costly military equipment did we invest in a losing war?  Why 
were so many Americans
demonstrating against it including Mohamad Alli and Jane Fonda? PR  is why 
we lost the war? Didn't
you read the lying news media? When you two all knowing vets are  
demonizing no one else should disagree? In my humble opinion the two of  you 
brain 
washed re-writing history idiots are so full of it.
Think, think, think.
 
Comrade B
 
  
 
In a message dated 8/17/2014 10:31:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
_schalestock@juno.com_ (mailto:schalestock@xxxxxxxx)  writes:

Stanley,
 
Your are so full of it. Where do you get off telling Lee and I  who were 
actually in combat in Vietnam that  we don't know what  we are talking about. 
Not to mention your own contradictions. Even the  NVA leadership 
acknowledged we were winning the military battles. It  was the PR campaign 
after TET 
that defeated us when the bumbling old  geezer Walter Cronkite announced to 
the American people the war was  lost.
 
Your problem  (aside from being uneducated  and closed  minded) is that you 
insist your prejudices are reality. I agree with  Lee's analysis. We should 
never have gotten involved there in the  first place. But that's a lot 
different than talking about what  actually took place on the ground. And it's 
sure as hell more on the  mark than yours.
 
JS


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "" _<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>_ 
(mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)   (Redacted sender _"Sblumen123@xxxxxxx"_ 
(mailto:Sblumen123@xxxxxxx)  
for DMARC)
To: _sparkscoffee@freelists.org_ (mailto:sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) 
Subject:  [sparkscoffee] Re: Viet Nam, success or failure?
Date: Sat, 16 Aug  2014 22:06:27 -0400 (EDT)

Lee
Remember after the war some American Officer told a Viet Nam  Officer that 
we really won the turning point
Tiet (don't recall the spelling) offensive and the reply was yes  but it is 
irrelevent. Sorry but I consider your
analysis as irrelevent. Don't be such a big shot strategist, no  one of 
importance after all this time says
what you say. We tried like hell to win and then an honorable way  out and 
we lost.
 
Comrade B
 
 
In a message dated 8/16/2014 9:20:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
_pixiehat@charter.net_ (mailto:pixiehat@xxxxxxxxxxx)  writes:

Stan,
Viet Nam didnt really defeat  anybody.  They persevered.  The war was too 
expensive for  France to continue and they didnt consider the possible prize
was  worth the expense.  There were a number of reasons we left  (gave up). 
 Our generals and admirals were not given the tools  they needed to 
prosecute the "police action".  The rules of  engagement were stacked 
against "winning" from the get go.  I  argue that we should not have been
there in the first  place.  It wasnt our war.  However, It was a war we 
could  have "won".  All those bombs/napalm/and agent orange, were  simply
put in the wrong place and not in enough quantity.   Of course, had we put 
enough resources in that theater to make a  difference, China would
have probably mached us bullet for  bullet.  I doubt the Vietnamese would 
have survived the  war.  I was there.  I went to bed every night  scared
shitless.  I'm glad we pulled out and I'm glad I  managed to survive.    
I'm glad Vietnam survived and  that the people are beginning to prosper.
Hopefully they will  eventually have the government that they deserve.  
Those in  power now will continue to do a fine job untill their  prosperity
and that of their constituency conflict.  I dont  see us "re-invading".  I 
do see them having another civil war  or coup.  It's a beautiful country and
seven million  visitors  is just a tip of the ice  berg.

Lee


On 8/16/2014 2:17 PM, (Redacted sender  _Sblumen123@aol.com_ 
(mailto:Sblumen123@xxxxxxx)  for DMARC)  wrote:

My dear JS
Our house pseudo intellectual, using  demonizing words out of thin air 
against a small  communist country who the world respects for winning a war 
against  a Capitalist France and USA throwing napalm, agent orange and more  
bombs then dropped during all of WW11. (See last paragraph  below). Did a 
little birdie tell you or you were there or know  someone who was there or 
what? 
Did you read that close to 7  million tourists visits Vietnam yearly? Did 
you read DR's  Wikipedia and figure from that, that Vietanm is led  by 
corrupt, vicious, deadly communist leaders who are  not trying to build a 
better 
country for their people and it's  future but only to make themselves rich? 
Perhaps we should  re-invade them and be welcomed as saviors this  time? 
Advice, don't demonize when you don't know. Think,  think, think.
 
Stanley
 
 
In a message dated 8/14/2014 11:47:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight  Time, 
_schalestock@juno.com_ (mailto:schalestock@xxxxxxxx)  writes:

Lee,
 
You really nailed it. I remember my dad (a ww2 vet) saying  it was a civil 
war right from the start. And of course, those of  us that were over there 
had no doubt about the corruption of the  South Vietnam government and the 
ARVN.
 
I recently watched an interesting documentary about LBJ  with live videos 
of him talking to McNamara. It appears that he  saw his conundrum as fearing 
the Chinese would come in if he  turned us loose to go up north on one hand 
and fearing he would  be accused of " losing" Vietnam if he did nothing.   
Naturally, the end result was was a micro managed cluster fuck  that ended in 
our defeat.    But it does show the  consequences of electing an 
uneducated, self serving ignoramus  who didn't even know about the thousand 
year old 
animosity  between Vietnam and China.  There is no doubt the  Vietnamese 
would have fought the Chinese just as hard as they  did us had China tried to 
come into the war.
 
And, as you point out, capitalism has no corner on  corruption. The 
communist regime in Vietnam is not only corrupt,  its vicious and deadly to its 
own 
people. So it goes in Stan's  communist Utopian fantasy world.
 
JS


---------- Original Message ----------
From:  "Lee, NI7I" _<pixiehat@xxxxxxxxxxx>_ (mailto:pixiehat@xxxxxxxxxxx) 
To:  _sparkscoffee@freelists.org_ (mailto:sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) 
Subject:  [sparkscoffee] Re: Viet Nam, success or failure?
Date: Thu,  14 Aug 2014 08:29:55 -0700

Stan, you would have a good argument  if you didnt insist on inserting half 
truths (which are worse  than lies).  The US wasnt trying to impose 
anything on viet  nam.  
What they were doing was interfering with a civil  war.  There was already 
a "capitalist democracy" in place  in south viet nam.  With our assistance 
it became  more
corrupt than it was and, again with our assistance, in  failed.  Now they 
have a "capitalist democracy" of their  own making.  I dont think you could 
really call  what
they have in that country communism.  It's just  adifferent sort of 
capitalism.  And, from what I  understand, is no less corrupt than our  country.

Lee
NI7I


On 8/13/2014 7:16 PM,  (Redacted sender _Sblumen123@aol.com_ 
(mailto:Sblumen123@xxxxxxx)  for DMARC)  wrote:

RR and DR and JS and etc.
You say you have an open mind and you know of no  socialist country that 
has succeeded excluding China?
How about Viet Nam, isn't that a country run by  communists? It was a 
colony of Captalist France until
it won it's independence and then again when  Captalist America tried  to 
impose a Captalist Democracy on it and  failed and it won the admiration of 
the world even by many  here? Today we free trade with it and it is even a  
tourist destination including soldiers who fought against  them. Remember the 
unkown Spanish author of the saying, 'A  wise man changes his mind often, a 
fool never'. You can call  me the fool but as wise men 
where do you stand?
 
Comrade B
 
   
 
 

____________________________________________________________
_Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile  Broadband. Try  it._ 
(http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT2) 







____________________________________________________________
_Apple's new iPhone?
Look closely. Because as you might guess, Apple  is hiding something…
_ (http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/53f0bc84a4b893c840debst03vuc) 
_fool.com_ 
(http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/53f0bc84a4b893c840debst03vuc)
[sparkscoffee] Re: Viet Nam, success or failure?

Other related posts:
