[sparkscoffee] Re: Viet Nam, success or failure?

  • From: "" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> (Redacted sender "Sblumen123@xxxxxxx" for DMARC)
  • To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 22:06:27 -0400 (EDT)

Lee
Remember after the war some American Officer told a Viet Nam Officer that  
we really won the turning point
Tiet (don't recall the spelling) offensive and the reply was yes but it is  
irrelevent. Sorry but I consider your
analysis as irrelevent. Don't be such a big shot strategist, no one of  
importance after all this time says
what you say. We tried like hell to win and then an honorable way out and  
we lost.
 
Comrade B
 
 
In a message dated 8/16/2014 9:20:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
pixiehat@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:

Stan,
Viet Nam didnt really defeat  anybody.  They persevered.  The war was too 
expensive for France to  continue and they didnt consider the possible prize
was worth the  expense.  There were a number of reasons we left (gave up).  
Our  generals and admirals were not given the tools they needed to 
prosecute  the "police action".  The rules of engagement were stacked 
against  "winning" from the get go.  I argue that we should not have been
there  in the first place.  It wasnt our war.  However, It was a war we  
could have "won".  All those bombs/napalm/and agent orange, were  simply
put in the wrong place and not in enough quantity.  Of course,  had we put 
enough resources in that theater to make a difference, China  would
have probably mached us bullet for bullet.  I doubt the  Vietnamese would 
have survived the war.  I was there.  I went to bed  every night scared
shitless.  I'm glad we pulled out and I'm glad I  managed to survive.    
I'm glad Vietnam survived and that the  people are beginning to prosper.
Hopefully they will eventually have the  government that they deserve.  
Those in power now will continue to do a  fine job untill their prosperity
and that of their constituency  conflict.  I dont see us "re-invading".  I 
do see them having  another civil war or coup.  It's a beautiful country and
seven million  visitors  is just a tip of the ice berg.

Lee


On  8/16/2014 2:17 PM, (Redacted sender _Sblumen123@aol.com_ 
(mailto:Sblumen123@xxxxxxx)  for DMARC)  wrote:


My dear JS
Our house pseudo intellectual, using demonizing words out of  thin air 
against a small communist country who the world respects for  winning a war 
against a Capitalist France and USA throwing napalm, agent  orange and more 
bombs then dropped during all of WW11. (See last  paragraph below). Did a 
little 
birdie tell you or you were there or know  someone who was there or what? 
Did you read that close to 7 million tourists  visits Vietnam yearly? Did you 
read DR's Wikipedia and figure from that,  that Vietanm is led by corrupt, 
vicious, deadly communist leaders  who are not trying to build a better 
country for their people and it's  future but only to make themselves rich? 
Perhaps we should re-invade  them and be welcomed as saviors this time? Advice, 
don't demonize  when you don't know. Think, think, think.
 
Stanley
 
 
In a message dated 8/14/2014 11:47:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
_schalestock@juno.com_ (mailto:schalestock@xxxxxxxx)  writes:

Lee,
 
You really nailed it. I remember my dad (a ww2 vet) saying it was a  civil 
war right from the start. And of course, those of us that were over  there 
had no doubt about the corruption of the South Vietnam government  and the 
ARVN.
 
I recently watched an interesting documentary about LBJ with live  videos 
of him talking to McNamara. It appears that he saw his conundrum as  fearing 
the Chinese would come in if he turned us loose to go up north on  one hand 
and fearing he would be accused of " losing" Vietnam if he did  nothing.  
Naturally, the end result was was a micro managed cluster  fuck that ended in 
our defeat.    But it does show the  consequences of electing an uneducated, 
self serving ignoramus who didn't  even know about the thousand year old 
animosity between Vietnam and  China.  There is no doubt the Vietnamese would 
have fought the  Chinese just as hard as they did us had China tried to come 
into the  war.
 
And, as you point out, capitalism has no corner on corruption. The  
communist regime in Vietnam is not only corrupt, its vicious and deadly to  its 
own 
people. So it goes in Stan's communist Utopian fantasy  world.
 
JS


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Lee, NI7I"  _<pixiehat@xxxxxxxxxxx>_ (mailto:pixiehat@xxxxxxxxxxx) 
To:  _sparkscoffee@freelists.org_ (mailto:sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) 
Subject:  [sparkscoffee] Re: Viet Nam, success or failure?
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014  08:29:55 -0700

Stan, you would have a good argument if you  didnt insist on inserting half 
truths (which are worse than lies).   The US wasnt trying to impose 
anything on viet nam.  
What they  were doing was interfering with a civil war.  There was already 
a  "capitalist democracy" in place in south viet nam.  With our  assistance 
it became more
corrupt than it was and, again with our  assistance, in failed.  Now they 
have a "capitalist democracy" of  their own making.  I dont think you could 
really call what
they  have in that country communism.  It's just adifferent sort of  
capitalism.  And, from what I understand, is no less corrupt than our  country.

Lee
NI7I


On 8/13/2014 7:16 PM, (Redacted  sender _Sblumen123@aol.com_ 
(mailto:Sblumen123@xxxxxxx)  for DMARC) wrote:

RR and DR and JS and etc.
You say you have an open mind and you know of no socialist country  that 
has succeeded excluding China?
How about Viet Nam, isn't that a country run by communists? It was  a 
colony of Captalist France until
it won it's independence and then again when Captalist America  tried to 
impose a Captalist Democracy on it and failed  and it won the admiration of 
the world even by many here? Today we  free trade with it and it is even a 
tourist destination including  soldiers who fought against them. Remember the 
unkown Spanish author of  the saying, 'A wise man changes his mind often, a 
fool never'. You can  call me the fool but as wise men 
where do you stand?
 
Comrade B
 
   
 
 

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