Well I guess that's one way of looking at it. JS ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: How Christianity has been turned upside down Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:32:15 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Sarin gas? Funny how Israel is one of only 6 countries in the world who have not ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention but you never hear about that in the news. Neither is the fact that Israel is one of only 4 countries in the world who is not party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Care to guess why you never hear about that in the Zionist owned American mainstream media? The fact is that the U.S. and U.K. put Saddam Hussein in power. He lost his usefulness when he said that he would begin selling Iraqi oil in Euros and not just US Dollars and for that he had to go. Same goes for Gaddafi in Lybia. Note that both countries are now more radical than they were before the invasions of those countries. As for Crimea, it has the only Russian port that is open year round and there is no way that Russia will ever give it up. So far they have broken no laws. Crimea was an independent republic and they voted to become part of Russia, just as they have been for hundreds of years. Russia is the spoken language in Crimea. Eastern Ukaine is a different story but it's a civil war, not an invasion, at least not yet. In any case Russia is only trying to protect its border. -RR -----Original Message----- From: "schalestock@xxxxxxxx" <schalestock@xxxxxxxx> Sent: Sep 2, 2014 9:57 AM To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: How Christianity has been turned upside down Kelly, You do raise some interesting points. But believe me, I'm the last guy that has any faith in our "government". Vietnam was the genesis of that feeling which nearly cost me my life. As far as the WMDs go, it is a fact that Sarin gas was found. Which you must admit can be considered a WMD. And It is a fact that Saddam was in pursuit of a nuclear weapon and only the Israeli strike on the Osiris reactor slowed that down. I'm not sure what the real motivation was for the anti Bush crowd to keep reiterating that no WMD's were found if not purely political. And in that respect they succeeded (and do to this day.) We'll probably never know the full truth. But you can't deny that Saddam was a bad guy and who, if left unchecked, could well have established hegemony over the entire middle east. I think this may be one (if not the primary ) reasons we went in after he invaded Kuwait. His potential control of the world oil supply was too threatening to ignore. I do agree with you that most wars are bullshit. Vietnam in particular, which metastasized from a grubby little under the table hand out to the corrupt Diems into a full scale disaster because of the stupidity, ignorance and arrogance of Johnson, McNamara, et al. As far as Ukraine goes, I don't know if the real politic of the situation calls for us to get involved or not. I have no doubt that that scenario could quickly escalate into WW3. But by the same token, I don't see any mystery in Putin's motivation. He is a KGB thug through and through and everything he has done so far demonstrates that. I do believe that his ultimate goal is a reestablishment of the old Soviet empire - or at least to create a political hegemony over eastern Europe. If this were 50 years ago, prior to the internet, I might agree that what we are seeing is a massive disinformation campaign. But the visual evidence from so many different sources and the fact that Putin did annex Crimea in violation of an existing treaty is too convincing to be ignored. The more interesting question from a historical perspective is what comes next. There is no doubt in my mind that Putin has Obama's measure. A KGB killer vs a faculty lounge dilettante is no contest by any measure. So I guess all we can do is stay tuned. Anyway, thanks for your thoughtful response. Thought provoking as always. 73John ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Kelly <kellyutah@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: "sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: How Christianity has been turned upside down Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 15:04:08 +0000 JS, This is a very interesting development that you and some others are apparently starting to think that the U.S. found those WMD that we were all told were there. Don't you think that the politicians who got us into that boondoggle would be crowing to the high heavens if WMD had been found, in order to vindicate themselves? They're politicians after all John. The WMD story was just a big fat lie for public consumption. It seems most wars that the American public is dragged into are marketed with lies for public consumption. Please excuse a bit of psychoanalysis on my part John, but could it be that your experiences in Vietnam invested you with a NEED to trust the government on some level when it comes to these things? I'm sure you lost friends over there and I know you had your share of life changing trauma. If I'd had similar experience, I think I'd want to believe that it was somehow worth all the pain and sacrifice and death, even if in a weird and twisted way. But history has shown otherwise. Sure, it's always worth the pain and death for someone, but usually not for those actually being maimed and killed. Those individuals pulling the strings are not ever on the front lines. The charade continues today in Ukraine. Unless you follow the events very closely and daily, most people think that Russia has invaded eastern Ukraine. We see and hear stories on TV and in the newspapers. But unlike the Russian food convoy white trucks that actually exist and pictures of which were all over TV, Youtube, and the newspapers, this massive Russian 'invasion' is so clever that no reporter or even an individual with a cell phone has been able to capture it! Kelly A. From: schalestock@xxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:48:58 +0000 To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: How Christianity has been turned upside down DR Very thought provoking. And I certainly agree with you about the existance of the WMDs. I too knew someone who was involved in that. In my opinion, the whole mantra about "Bush Lied" was classic Democratic bullshit that was repeated so many times by the media that it became "true." - Much like the ongoing bullshit about how Bill Clinton was a great president instead of the white trash rapist he was. RR does make some good points about how government attracts the worst kinds of people for the most self serving of reasons. And in some ways, the same is true about religion and religious zealots. I am still amazed at the transparent disconnect between a quest for spirituality and the pursuit of power. JS ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr." <n1ea@xxxxxxxx> To: "sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: How Christianity has been turned upside down Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 10:30:13 -0400 Jesus never challenged the rabbi's rule. He challenged their interpretation of the law, but not their position or ability to rule or their authority to rule. What he did challenge was their understanding of the Law (meaning the scriptures which are the Law). They were furious at him for doing this. You're right about the Rabbis of the Sanhedrin trying Jesus and finding him guilty of Blasphemy - which is #1 Commandment (Law) I am Yahweh your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those who hate me, and showing loving kindness to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. Jesus not only agrees that blasphemy is an evil, but being merciful he tempers it, it can be forgiven, but he adds that there is one blasphemy that can never be forgiven: Mark 28-30 28 �Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin�� 30 for they had said, �He has an unclean spirit.� Jesus was taken before the Sanhedrin and charged with blasphemy and convicted, just as St. Stephan who was the first martyr - and Saul later Paul was there at that martyrdom when he was on the side of the Sanhedrin - as he should be - as he was not illuminated by the truth that Jesus had given which after he fell down blind and later recovered his sight, he received and was converted to Christ. The Sanhedrin / "the rabbis" had authority to judge interpret the Law but NOT to make Law, only God made Law. This used to be our basis of British Common Law in the USA but no more, now it is more like you say, the Supreme Court and other courts make law. Jesus had as you say the authority to judge but even higher than theirs, in addition to their powers, Jesus had the authority to make laws, which he passed to Peter - the Rock and his Church. As for weapons of mass destruction, they were there, we got most of them along with barrels of money, I know an Army Ranger who saw them being loaded on a ship, but everything about that was declared to be above top secret, so you won't hear anything about it because of the acquisition of the gold and jewels would signify that our economy is going to Hell in a hand basket. Most of what you say about government I agree with - and it is illegitimate for governments to abuse people and their authority like that. Going into that cesspool would take us forever. Usually it comes down to money, land, and power. 73 DR On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Exactly. Jesus challenged the rabbi's rule. The Roman governor told the rabbis that Jesus had not broken any Roman law. Why did they try to trick Jesus into saying that he challenged Roman authority to collect taxes? It was the rabbis who tried Jesus and found him guilty. They claimed it was because he said he was the Messiah (how is that a crime anyway?) in order to justify their actions just as the U.S. Government claimed they invaded Iraq because they had WMD's. In Jewish communities the rabbis made the laws, claiming they were given that authority by God. Jesus said that he was also a son of God and as such had as much authority as they did to judge right and wrong. For this he had to be executed because death is the punishment for challenging authority is Jewish and Islamic and communist states. All governments do is rob and murder people. If you owe money to the U.S. Government. they will forcibly seize everything you owe and kill you if you resist. Can you imagine a bank or private company doing this if you owed them money? During the 20th Century governments were responsible for murdering 200 million people, not counting the ten's of millions killed in wars. All governments are evil because they attract evil people, people who want to rule over others and rob and steal with impunity. It does not matter if they are "democratically" elected, which is a farce, or claim they are given the power by God, such as Jews and Muslims, or they are warlords who are at least honest. -RR -RR -----Original Message----- From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr."Sent: Aug 30, 2014 9:48 PM To: "sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: How Christianity has been turned upside down The chief rabbis called for Jesus's execution because he committed the offense of saying he was God. Pilate sat on the judgement seat and heard the case, and found Jesus innocent of violating any Roman law. 6 When the chief priests and the officers saw him, they cried out, �Crucify him, crucify him!� Pilate said to them, �Take him yourselves and crucify him, for I find no crime in him.� 7 The Jews answered him, �We have a law, and by that law he ought to die, because he has made himself the Son of God.� 8 When Pilate heard these words, he was the more afraid; 9 he entered the praetorium again and said to Jesus, �Where are you from?� But Jesus gave no answer. 10 Pilate therefore said to him, �You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have power to release you, and power to crucify you?� 11 Jesus answered him, �You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has the greater sin.� 12 Upon this Pilate sought to release him, but the Jews cried out, �If you release this man, you are not Caesar�s friend; every one who makes himself a king sets himself against Caesar.� 13 When Pilate heard these words, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judgment seat at a place called The Pavement, and in Hebrew, Gabbatha. 14 Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, �Behold your King!� 15 They cried out, �Away with him, away with him, crucify him!� Pilate said to them, �Shall I crucify your King?� The chief priests answered, �We have no king but Caesar.� 16 Then he handed him over to them to be crucified. Pilate was afraid that the Jews would tell Caesar that he was administering law unfairly, fear again ruled. Pilate's wife had a dream and she was right. But without Pilate's decision, what had to be done would not have been done, so Pilate and the Rabbi's both glorified God by their acts - God brought beauty out of it all.[ 73DR On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Pontius Pilot washed his hands of Jesus's execution. He said he wanted nothing to do with it. In Jewish communities well into the 20th Century it was rabbis who made all the rules. It was the Jewish rabbis who called for Jesus's execution. -----Original Message----- From: "Lee, NI7I" Sent: Aug 30, 2014 11:52 AM To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: How Christianity has been turned upside down I had always been under the impression that the Romans killed him and that the Romans were in power (the government) at that time.. Guess I was wrong. Le e On 8/30/2014 7:57 AM, Ron Ristad wrote:Jesus said that his kingdom was not of this world. He challenged government control. The government being the Rabbis in a Jewish state. That's why he was executed. The only solution governments have for any problem is to kill people. This is why the more problems there are the more people must die. -----Original Message----- From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr." Sent: Aug 30, 2014 8:28 AM To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: How Christianity has been turned upside down No he wouldn't. He be called a blasphemer because he said God was his father and that he was God. He said his kingdom was not of this world. 73 DR On Aug 30, 2014 10:01 AM, "Ron Ristad" <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Jesus would be called a terrorist today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQI7MVHYf8M -RR____________________________________________________________ Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. 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