[sparkscoffee] Re: How Christianity has been turned upside down
- From: "schalestock@xxxxxxxx" <schalestock@xxxxxxxx>
- To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 15:57:41 GMT
Kelly, You do raise some interesting points. But believe me, I'm the last guy
that has any faith in our "government". Vietnam was the genesis of that
feeling which nearly cost me my life. As far as the WMDs go, it is a fact that
Sarin gas was found. Which you must admit can be considered a WMD. And It is a
fact that Saddam was in pursuit of a nuclear weapon and only the Israeli strike
on the Osiris reactor slowed that down. I'm not sure what the real motivation
was for the anti Bush crowd to keep reiterating that no WMD's were found if not
purely political. And in that respect they succeeded (and do to this day.)
We'll probably never know the full truth. But you can't deny that Saddam was a
bad guy and who, if left unchecked, could well have established hegemony over
the entire middle east. I think this may be one (if not the primary ) reasons
we went in after he invaded Kuwait. His potential control of the world oil
supply was too threatening to ignore. I do agree with you that most wars are
bullshit. Vietnam in particular, which metastasized from a grubby little under
the table hand out to the corrupt Diems into a full scale disaster because of
the stupidity, ignorance and arrogance of Johnson, McNamara, et al. As far as
Ukraine goes, I don't know if the real politic of the situation calls for us to
get involved or not. I have no doubt that that scenario could quickly escalate
into WW3. But by the same token, I don't see any mystery in Putin's
motivation. He is a KGB thug through and through and everything he has done so
far demonstrates that. I do believe that his ultimate goal is a reestablishment
of the old Soviet empire - or at least to create a political hegemony over
eastern Europe. If this were 50 years ago, prior to the internet, I might
agree that what we are seeing is a massive disinformation campaign. But the
visual evidence from so many different sources and the fact that Putin did
annex Crimea in violation of an existing treaty is too convincing to be
ignored. The more interesting question from a historical perspective is what
comes next. There is no doubt in my mind that Putin has Obama's measure. A KGB
killer vs a faculty lounge dilettante is no contest by any measure. So I guess
all we can do is stay tuned. Anyway, thanks for your thoughtful response.
Thought provoking as always. 73John
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Kelly <kellyutah@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: How Christianity has been turned upside down
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 15:04:08 +0000
JS,
This is a very interesting development that you and some others are apparently
starting to think that the U.S. found those WMD that we were all told were
there. Don't you think that the politicians who got us into that boondoggle
would be crowing to the high heavens if WMD had been found, in order to
vindicate themselves? They're politicians after all John.
The WMD story was just a big fat lie for public consumption. It seems most
wars that the American public is dragged into are marketed with lies for public
consumption.
Please excuse a bit of psychoanalysis on my part John, but could it be that
your experiences in Vietnam invested you with a NEED to trust the government on
some level when it comes to these things? I'm sure you lost friends over there
and I know you had your share of life changing trauma. If I'd had similar
experience, I think I'd want to believe that it was somehow worth all the pain
and sacrifice and death, even if in a weird and twisted way.
But history has shown otherwise. Sure, it's always worth the pain and death
for someone, but usually not for those actually being maimed and killed. Those
individuals pulling the strings are not ever on the front lines.
The charade continues today in Ukraine. Unless you follow the events very
closely and daily, most people think that Russia has invaded eastern Ukraine.
We see and hear stories on TV and in the newspapers. But unlike the Russian
food convoy white trucks that actually exist and pictures of which were all
over TV, Youtube, and the newspapers, this massive Russian 'invasion' is so
clever that no reporter or even an individual with a cell phone has been able
to capture it!
Kelly A.
From: schalestock@xxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:48:58 +0000
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: How Christianity has been turned upside down
DR Very thought provoking. And I certainly agree with you about the existance
of the WMDs. I too knew someone who was involved in that. In my opinion, the
whole mantra about "Bush Lied" was classic Democratic bullshit that was
repeated so many times by the media that it became "true." - Much like the
ongoing bullshit about how Bill Clinton was a great president instead of the
white trash rapist he was. RR does make some good points about how government
attracts the worst kinds of people for the most self serving of reasons. And in
some ways, the same is true about religion and religious zealots. I am still
amazed at the transparent disconnect between a quest for spirituality and the
pursuit of power. JS
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr." <n1ea@xxxxxxxx>
To: "sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: How Christianity has been turned upside down
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 10:30:13 -0400
Jesus never challenged the rabbi's rule. He challenged their interpretation of
the law, but not their position or ability to rule or their authority to rule.
What he did challenge was their understanding of the Law (meaning the
scriptures which are the Law). They were furious at him for doing this. You're
right about the Rabbis of the Sanhedrin trying Jesus and finding him guilty of
Blasphemy - which is #1 Commandment (Law) I am Yahweh your God, who brought you
out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other
gods before me. You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of
anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that
is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor
serve them, for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of
the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those
who hate me, and showing loving kindness to thousands of those who love me and
keep my commandments. Jesus not only agrees that blasphemy is an evil, but
being merciful he tempers it, it can be forgiven, but he adds that there is one
blasphemy that can never be forgiven: Mark 28-30 28 �Truly, I say to
you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they
utter; 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness,
but is guilty of an eternal sin�� 30 for they had said,
�He has an unclean spirit.� Jesus was taken before the Sanhedrin
and charged with blasphemy and convicted, just as St. Stephan who was the first
martyr - and Saul later Paul was there at that martyrdom when he was on the
side of the Sanhedrin - as he should be - as he was not illuminated by the
truth that Jesus had given which after he fell down blind and later recovered
his sight, he received and was converted to Christ. The Sanhedrin / "the
rabbis" had authority to judge interpret the Law but NOT to make Law, only God
made Law. This used to be our basis of British Common Law in the USA but no
more, now it is more like you say, the Supreme Court and other courts make law.
Jesus had as you say the authority to judge but even higher than theirs, in
addition to their powers, Jesus had the authority to make laws, which he passed
to Peter - the Rock and his Church. As for weapons of mass destruction, they
were there, we got most of them along with barrels of money, I know an Army
Ranger who saw them being loaded on a ship, but everything about that was
declared to be above top secret, so you won't hear anything about it because of
the acquisition of the gold and jewels would signify that our economy is going
to Hell in a hand basket. Most of what you say about government I agree with -
and it is illegitimate for governments to abuse people and their authority like
that. Going into that cesspool would take us forever. Usually it comes down
to money, land, and power. 73 DR
On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Exactly. Jesus challenged the rabbi's rule. The Roman governor told the rabbis
that Jesus had not broken any Roman law. Why did they try to trick Jesus into
saying that he challenged Roman authority to collect taxes? It was the rabbis
who tried Jesus and found him guilty. They claimed it was because he said he
was the Messiah (how is that a crime anyway?) in order to justify their actions
just as the U.S. Government claimed they invaded Iraq because they had WMD's.
In Jewish communities the rabbis made the laws, claiming they were given that
authority by God. Jesus said that he was also a son of God and as such had as
much authority as they did to judge right and wrong. For this he had to be
executed because death is the punishment for challenging authority is Jewish
and Islamic and communist states.
All governments do is rob and murder people. If you owe money to the U.S.
Government. they will forcibly seize everything you owe and kill you if you
resist. Can you imagine a bank or private company doing this if you owed them
money? During the 20th Century governments were responsible for murdering 200
million people, not counting the ten's of millions killed in wars. All
governments are evil because they attract evil people, people who want to rule
over others and rob and steal with impunity. It does not matter if they are
"democratically" elected, which is a farce, or claim they are given the power
by God, such as Jews and Muslims, or they are warlords who are at least honest.
-RR
-RR
-----Original Message-----
From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr."Sent: Aug 30, 2014 9:48 PM
To: "sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: How Christianity has been turned upside down
The chief rabbis called for Jesus's execution because he committed the offense
of saying he was God. Pilate sat on the judgement seat and heard the case, and
found Jesus innocent of violating any Roman law. 6 When the chief priests and
the officers saw him, they cried out, �Crucify him, crucify him!�
Pilate said to them, �Take him yourselves and crucify him, for I find no
crime in him.� 7 The Jews answered him, �We have a law, and by
that law he ought to die, because he has made himself the Son of God.� 8
When Pilate heard these words, he was the more afraid; 9 he entered the
praetorium again and said to Jesus, �Where are you from?� But
Jesus gave no answer. 10 Pilate therefore said to him, �You will not
speak to me? Do you not know that I have power to release you, and power to
crucify you?� 11 Jesus answered him, �You would have no power
over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me
to you has the greater sin.� 12 Upon this Pilate sought to release him,
but the Jews cried out, �If you release this man, you are not
Caesar�s friend; every one who makes himself a king sets himself against
Caesar.� 13 When Pilate heard these words, he brought Jesus out and sat
down on the judgment seat at a place called The Pavement, and in Hebrew,
Gabbatha. 14 Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about
the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, �Behold your King!� 15 They
cried out, �Away with him, away with him, crucify him!� Pilate
said to them, �Shall I crucify your King?� The chief priests
answered, �We have no king but Caesar.� 16 Then he handed him
over to them to be crucified. Pilate was afraid that the Jews would tell Caesar
that he was administering law unfairly, fear again ruled. Pilate's wife had a
dream and she was right. But without Pilate's decision, what had to be done
would not have been done, so Pilate and the Rabbi's both glorified God by their
acts - God brought beauty out of it all.[ 73DR
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Ron Ristad <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Pontius Pilot washed his hands of Jesus's execution. He said he wanted nothing
to do with it. In Jewish communities well into the 20th Century it was rabbis
who made all the rules. It was the Jewish rabbis who called for Jesus's
execution.
-----Original Message-----
From: "Lee, NI7I"
Sent: Aug 30, 2014 11:52 AM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: How Christianity has been turned upside down
I had always been under the impression that the Romans killed him and that the
Romans were in power (the government) at that time.. Guess I
was wrong.
Le
e
On 8/30/2014 7:57 AM, Ron Ristad wrote:Jesus said that his kingdom was not of
this world. He challenged government control. The government being the Rabbis
in a Jewish state. That's why he was executed. The only solution governments
have for any problem is to kill people. This is why the more problems there are
the more people must die.
-----Original Message-----
From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr."
Sent: Aug 30, 2014 8:28 AM
To: sparkscoffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sparkscoffee] Re: How Christianity has been turned upside down
No he wouldn't. He be called a blasphemer because he said God was his father
and that he was God.
He said his kingdom was not of this world.
73
DR
On Aug 30, 2014 10:01 AM, "Ron Ristad" <ristad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Jesus would be called a terrorist today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQI7MVHYf8M
-RR____________________________________________________________
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