*From*: Scott McMorrow <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>*To*: <sherman.chen@xxxxxxx>*Date*: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 14:57:34 -0400

Sherman, The solvers already handle that. All you need to do is place ports across all power and signal pins that you want to model. you will produce an s-parameter which fully incorporates noise coupling. This works with any frequency domain tool that can model power planes, vias, and signals. regards, Scott Scott McMorrow TeraspeedĀ® Consulting - A Division of Samtec 16 Stormy Brook Rd Falmouth, ME 04105 (401) 284-1827 Business http://www.teraspeed.com On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Chen, Sherman <sherman.chen@xxxxxxx> wrote: > Nilesh, > > Thanks for the paper. My question is regarding how to model the coupling > from PDN to the transmission line, not the transmitter or the receiver > chip. The coupling effect across the whole span of the tline need to be > calculated. To do that in circuit simulator what I can think of is to use a > multi-port sparam which's ports are extracted btw the locations along the > tline and the VRM, at the interval of say lambda/20. At each location the > port need to be set at four points: DP+, DP-, Vcc on power plane, and GND > on the ground plane. > Any comments on this thought? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nilesh_kamdar2@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:nilesh_kamdar2@xxxxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:38 PM > To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Chen, Sherman > Subject: RE: [SI-LIST] time domain simulation w/ PDN planes > > Sherman > > If I understood your question correctly, I believe that this simulation > can be handled in ADS. To do this you need to create an SI/PI model of the > physical interconnects that includes all the power/ground planes and also > signal lines. Then you can apply specific time domain stimulus in a > Transient simulation. > > Here is a DesignCon 2014 paper that explains how we can do this: > > Paper: > http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5991-4083EN.pdf > > Slides: > > http://www.xilinx.com/events/designcon2014/11_WE5Slides_Touchstonev2SIPISParameterModels.pdf > > If you have more questions about this technique, you can contact me > offline. > > Thanks > Nilesh Kamdar > Applications Engineer, Keysight Technologies > > > > -----Original Message----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Msg: #1 in digest > From: "Chen, Sherman" <sherman.chen@xxxxxxx> > Subject: [SI-LIST] time domain simulation w/ PDN planes > Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 14:07:19 +0000 > > Hello experts, > I'm trying to evaluate the impact of power plane noise on the HS signals. > The sim setup would require to apply a noise source on the PDN (somewhere > btw power plane and ground plane), also a PRBS source at the initial end of > the t-line. To my knowledge it looks only Cadence Sigrity Speed2000 can run > such SI/PI combined sim since the feedback I got from Keysight and ANSYS > both said that neither ADS nor SIWave can handle such sim case where time > domain sim needs to be run w/ the noise coupled from power/ground plane. > Note the coupling needs to be from the whole plane rather than injected at > one point for the latter we can simply use a sparam model of the PDN as the > means of noise injection but this would not be the equivalent of the plane > coupling, right? > Any suggestion will be appreciated. > > Best Regards, > > Sherman Chen > Signal Integrity > EMC Global Hardware Engineering > Tel: +86 21 60951100-3329 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > http://www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > > List forum is accessible at: > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list > > List archives are viewable at: > http://www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: http://www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List forum is accessible at: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list List archives are viewable at: http://www.freelists.org/archives/si-list Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu

**References**:**[SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes***From:*Chen, Sherman

- » [SI-LIST] time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - Chen, Sherman
- » [SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - Ferhat Yaldiz
- » [SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - Charles Hymowitz
- » [SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - nilesh_kamdar2
- » [SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - Chen, Sherman
- » [SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - Scott McMorrow
- » [SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - Ray Anderson
- » [SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - Romi Mayder
- » [SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - Yuriy Shlepnev
- » [SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - Istvan Nagy
- » [SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - Long Yang
- » [SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - Cristian Gozzi
- » [SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - Bradley Brim
- » [SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - Han, Guobing
- » [SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - Asbenson, Lyndell L
- » [SI-LIST] Re: time domain simulation w/ PDN planes - Scott McMorrow