[SI-LIST] Re: Using S-parameter file for SI Simulations
- From: Scott McMorrow <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: emcesd@xxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:59:12 -0500
Tesla,
Sure you can. I model capacitors in 3D EM simulation all the time, and
have precise measurement correlation to my models. I'll submit to you that
there is no effective way to fully de-embed the pads from a capacitor
measurement that reflects reality, due to the unshielded nature of most
capacitors.
Scott
Scott McMorrow
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
16 Stormy Brook Road
Falmouth, ME 04105
(401) 284-1827 Business
http://www.teraspeed.com
Teraspeed® is the registered service mark of
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Tesla <emcesd@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think measurement data is better one. i do not think you can model a
> capacitor accurate enough in present 3D EM simulation.
> Thanks.
>
> Tesla
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 2012-11-15 01:47:54,"Cristian Gozzi" <cristian.gozzi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >Hi
> >Yes, you have to include pads in your simulation.
> >
> >Usually S-parameter of capacitors do not include pads effect because the
> >parassitics of pcb used for measuring them are de-embedded with VNA
> >calibration
> >
> >Regards
> >Cristian
> >
> >Chip-Package-Board codesign
> >Infineon Technologies Austria AG
> >Il giorno 14/nov/2012 18:35, "Syed Razeen" <razeen_rulez@xxxxxxxxxxx> ha
> >scritto:
> >
> >> Hi ,
> >> I'v a few queries in SI channel simulations w.r.t to the usage of
> >> S-parameter files. When simulating PCIe interface ppl would have used
> >> coupling capacitors.
> >> When coupling capacitors is in the channel, we usually consider
> >> S-parameter files of the capacitor. When using those capacitors should I
> >> consider the pads in the channel's Transmission line.
> >> Whether the S-parameter file is a measured or simulated file the
> presence
> >> of PAD would have considered, so is it necessary to have the pad in the
> >> simulation.
> >>
> >> With capacitors in use, we provide a clearance to reduce the
> >> discontinuities, If S-parameter files are considered will the clearance
> >> have an effect or will it provide the results with how the file was
> >> generated.
> >>
> >> Or is it advisable to use HFSS to generate the particular section
> modeled
> >> as required and export Touchstone file and used it in the simulations.
> >> Kindly let me know a procedure to proceed further in my analysis.
> >>
> >> Also i noticed by plotting TDR, I get a positive spike which goes to 110
> >> ohms, at the place where the capacitor was considered.
> >>
> >> Kindly clarify.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Razeen
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--
Scott McMorrow
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
16 Stormy Brook Road
Falmouth, ME 04105
(401) 284-1827 Business
http://www.teraspeed.com
Teraspeed® is the registered service mark of
Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC
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