Clifford, Xilinx has a number of kits to help customers with needs similar to yours. Most recently, Xilinx teamed with Ansoft to create a ?virtual test board? in simulation equivalent to the Virtex II Pro-X test board. We have demonstrated exteremly accurate correlations between simulation and measurement for a channel comprising the BGA package, microstrip segments, differential vias and stripline segments as well as SMA connectors for 10 Gb/s data rates. S-parameter as well as parameterized models of the transmission lines and differential vias will be available through our SI central website within a week or so. (The design kit will include HFSS and Ansoft Designer models for the transmission path including the FPGA package, transmission lines, differential via, and connectors. The kit will also include the full, 10 gigabit channel circuit and system model, ready to solve, in Ansoft Designer.) A white paper that explains this work will also be available through the link above. Also, the Special XCell On-Line for Signal Integrity Series features more than 10 technical articles from a number of signal integrity experts in the industry to explore tools and methods you can use to combat signal and power integrity distortions throughout your high-speed PCB development. The Special XCell On-Line for Signal Integrity Series is now available at http://www.xilinx.com/publications/xcellonline/xc_si49.htm Also check out the SI seminar series that Xilinx is hosting at http://www.xilinx.com/ise/alliance/si_seminar.htm Hope that helps. Regards, Suresh Clifford van Dyk wrote: > Hello > I would like to perform reliable simulation of GHz signals (up to > 3.125GHz), specifically Xilinx RocketIO. I would like to include in the > simulation the effects of the following: > Driver->PCB trace (incl. vias)->connector->cable->connector->PCB > trace(incl. vias)->Receiver > > The models that I have obtained from the various vendors are HSPICE > models. I have evaluated two of the most recommended S.I. toolchains: > Mentor G. HyperLynx and Cadence Spectraquest. Both tools use HSPICE as > the simulation engine, and essentially act as a front-end gui to HSPICE, > as well as extracting the PCB trace/via models. My experiences thusfar > with both tools have not been good. Anything but the most simplistic of > traces causes the tools to either crash or take rediculous time to > process (of the order of hours for even a simple net). A further issue > is that both of these tool vendors claim that the HSPICE simulator is > not necessary, and that the simulation can be performed without it, but > practically this is not the case, due to a lack of availability of > reliable models in anything other than HSPICE format. The conversion > from HSPICE to any of the custom modelling types is also, in my opinion, > non-trivial and potentially an extremely tedious manual process. > > I believe that S-Parameter based simulation provides much faster > simulation, but again there is a lack of availability of S-Parameter models. > > Can anyone recommend a method for simulating the above signals that is > simple, robust and reliable, or is the simulation of such signals still > premature? Coming from a HW design background, I am fairly new to S.I., > but it seems surprising that there is no industry-standard modelling > type (equivalent of IBIS) that cable/connector vendors will provide, but > maybe this level of simulation is in its infancy, and S-Parameter models > will emerge as the standard? > > Is the simulation of such signals entirely necessary? I am dubious about > the reliability of the results of such simulations, and I am wondering > whether it is not more practical to just take all the precautions > possible and hope for the best! > > Please let me know if you have any advise, or a good solution to my dilemma! > > Kind regards, > Clifford > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > > List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > -- / 7\'7 Suresh Subramaniam suresh.subramaniam@xxxxxxxxxx \ \ Xilinx Telephone: 408-559-7778 / / 2100 Logic Drive Direct: 408-879-6172 \_\/.\ San Jose, CA 95124 FAX: 408-377-9013 ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu