[SI-LIST] Re: SI Simulation of GHz signals
- From: "Pratt, Gary" <gary_pratt@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: clifford@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:10:15 -0400
Hello Clifford,
Are you using the "Xilinx RocketIO Design kit for HyperLynx" or the
"Xilinx RocketIO Design kit for ICX" available on the Xilinx SPICE
website? These kits contain SPICE models re-encrypted to work in the
much more stable alternative to HSPICE delivered with ICX and HyperLynx.
We can work with your silicon/connect/cable/etc vendor to re-encrypt
models for ICX and HyperLynx as well. Just have them contact me.
These kits also use various techniques including the latest
multi-lingual extensions in IBIS 4.1 to make the GHz analysis as simple
as traditional analysis. Do note that I said "as simple", not "as fast"
... Transistor-level simulation will always be hundreds of times slower
than traditional IBIS table-based analysis. But, we have the solution
for the speed problem as well. Again, have your component supplier
contact me for more details.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [ mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> ] On Behalf Of Clifford van Dyk
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:32 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] SI Simulation of GHz signals
Hello
I would like to perform reliable simulation of GHz signals (up to
3.125GHz), specifically Xilinx RocketIO. I would like to include in the
simulation the effects of the following:
Driver->PCB trace (incl. vias)->connector->cable->connector->PCB
trace(incl. vias)->Receiver
The models that I have obtained from the various vendors are HSPICE
models. I have evaluated two of the most recommended S.I. toolchains:
Mentor G. HyperLynx and Cadence Spectraquest. Both tools use HSPICE as
the simulation engine, and essentially act as a front-end gui to HSPICE,
as well as extracting the PCB trace/via models. My experiences thusfar
with both tools have not been good. Anything but the most simplistic of
traces causes the tools to either crash or take rediculous time to
process (of the order of hours for even a simple net). A further issue
is that both of these tool vendors claim that the HSPICE simulator is
not necessary, and that the simulation can be performed without it, but
practically this is not the case, due to a lack of availability of
reliable models in anything other than HSPICE format. The conversion
from HSPICE to any of the custom modelling types is also, in my opinion,
non-trivial and potentially an extremely tedious manual process.
I believe that S-Parameter based simulation provides much faster
simulation, but again there is a lack of availability of S-Parameter
models.
Can anyone recommend a method for simulating the above signals that is
simple, robust and reliable, or is the simulation of such signals still
premature? Coming from a HW design background, I am fairly new to S.I.,
but it seems surprising that there is no industry-standard modelling
type (equivalent of IBIS) that cable/connector vendors will provide, but
maybe this level of simulation is in its infancy, and S-Parameter models
will emerge as the standard?
Is the simulation of such signals entirely necessary? I am dubious about
the reliability of the results of such simulations, and I am wondering
whether it is not more practical to just take all the precautions
possible and hope for the best!
Please let me know if you have any advise, or a good solution to my
dilemma!
Kind regards,
Clifford
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