[SI-LIST] Re: Loss tangent and Dielectric conductance
- From: "Yaping Zhou" <y.zhou@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <Ken.Cantrell@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 12:23:55 -0600
Ken:
I think the most accurate way to measure dieletric constant is to use high-Q
cavity. The cavity is calibrated first, then a small piece of material is
put in. The resonance frequency shift and Q decrease are measure with VNA.
The frequency shift can be related to the real part Er' and the Q decrease
is related to the imaginary part Er''. Loss tangent is the ratio of Er' and
Er'' .
A metallic trace has to be added for TDR measurment. By doing so we
introduce additional conductor loss, which usually dominates dielectric
loss. Is there a way to separate conductor loss and dielectric loss in TDR
measurement?
Yaping
--
**************************************
Yaping Zhou
Motorola Semiconductor Products Sector
Final Manufacturing Technology Center
Ed Bluestein, Austin, Texas
**************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Cantrell" <Ken.Cantrell@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <omism@xxxxxxxxx>; <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 12:14 PM
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Loss tangent and Dielectric conductance
>
> Pete, Ozgur, et. al,
> That's the right formula, but the trick is in actually knowing what the
loss
> tangent is. Vendor data for standard formulations (FR40X, GTEK, Rogers,
> etc.)can be quite divergent from TDR derived permittivity (then up scaling
> the permittivty to the frequency of operation), and fitting the loss
tangent
> to the dielectric portion of the total measured loss - Vout/Vin (dB).
> Anyone know of any good texts or literature sources on the subject?
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Ozgur Misman
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 9:38 AM
> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Loss tangent and Dielectric conductance
>
>
>
>
> Actually formula do exist,
> I must have missed the capacitance in tmy previous E-mail
> let me rewrite it as
> Gd=2*pi*f *tand*C (capacitance)
> C=Er*Co
> Co= Eo A/d
>
> Mick is right in saying that the dielectric loss is a property of the
> material and conductance depends on the circuit as well. That link is in
> the capacitance term.
> The formula is derived assuming a resistance in parallel with
> capaciatance.and conductance is defined as 1/resistance.
> Hope this clarifies
>
> Ozgur Misman
> ---------------------- Forwarded by Ozgur Misman/CHAZ/AAWW on 11/01/2001
> 09:34 AM ---------------------------
>
>
> 11/01/2001 08:51 AM
> Ozgur Misman - Chandler - 5080
> Sr Engineer
> 01 We've Just Begun
>
>
>
> To: plaflamm@xxxxxxxx
> cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Loss tangent and Dielectric conductance (Document
> link: Ozgur Misman)
>
> Hi Peter,
> I think the for mula is : Gd (conductance)=2*pi*frequency*tand(loss
> tangent)* Eo (permittivity of the free space;8.854e-12f/m)* dielectric
> constant;Er
> Ozgur Misman
> Amkor Technology
>
>
>
> Peter LaFlamme <plaflamm@xxxxxxxx>@freelists.org on 11/01/2001 06:45:13 AM
>
> Please respond to plaflamm@xxxxxxxx
>
> Sent by: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> To: si-list <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> cc:
>
>
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Loss tangent and Dielectric conductance
>
>
>
> Hi SI Folks,
> I would like to know the relationship between Loss Tangent and Dielectric
> loss. In other words, If I know the "loss tangent" at a given frequency
for
> a particular dielectric what is the formula to convert this into the
> Dielectric conductance(Gd) ?
>
> Thanks,
> Peter
>
> --
> Peter LaFlamme
>
> Applied Micro Circuits Corp.
> Staff System Applications Engineer
> 200 Minuteman Rd, 3rd Floor
> Andover, MA 01810
>
> 978-247-8470 phone
> 978-623-0055 Fax
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