[SI-LIST] Loss tangent and Dielectric conductance
- From: "Eric Bogatin" <eric@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "SI list" <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"Cantrell Ken" <Ken.Cantrell@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <plaflamm@xxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 08:25:57 -0600
Peter and Ken-
If you would like to know the details on how dissipation factor
relates to the conductance and the resulting attenuation, and why
attenuation increases linearly with frequency, even when the
dissipation is constant, check out the app notes on our web page at
www.gigatest.com.
The DesignCon 2001 paper I did with Steve Cory and Mike Resso has a
lot of the details written up. It is #67, with larger versions of the
slides in #68. Another paper I did with Gary Ontonari is #71. Slides
from a number of presentations I've done with some of the equations
derived, are in #74, #77.
In the August issue of Printed Circuit Mag, I have a paper on how the
dissipation factor can be measured for laminate substrates. In this
paper, we show that for FR4, the dissipation is constant up to about
15 GHz.
In the upcoming class I'm teaching next week on High Speed Board
Design, in Sunnyvale, there is a section on lossy lines and the
concepts of dissipation factor, complex dielectric constant,
attenuation, rise time degradation and the limits to FR4. In addition,
I just sent in my proposal for a half day tutorial at the Printed
Circuit Design West Show, in San Jose in March on lossy lines.
GigaTest does measurements on the dielectric constant and dissipation
of laminate materials pretty regularly. You can get more info from our
web site.
--eric
**************************************
Eric Bogatin
CTO, Giga Test Labs
v: 913-393-1305
f: 913-393-1306
e: eric@xxxxxxxxxxxx
26235 W. 110th Terr. Olathe, KS 66061
corporate office:
408-524-2700
134 S. Wolfe Rd Sunnyvale, CA 94086
web: www.gigatest.com
**************************************
From: "Ken Cantrell" <Ken.Cantrell@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Loss tangent and Dielectric conductance
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 11:14:23 -0700
Pete, Ozgur, et. al,
That's the right formula, but the trick is in actually knowing what
the loss
tangent is. Vendor data for standard formulations (FR40X, GTEK,
Rogers,
etc.)can be quite divergent from TDR derived permittivity (then up
scaling
the permittivty to the frequency of operation), and fitting the loss
tangent
to the dielectric portion of the total measured loss - Vout/Vin (dB).
Anyone know of any good texts or literature sources on the subject?
Ken
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 08:45:13 -0500
From: Peter LaFlamme <plaflamm@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [SI-LIST] Loss tangent and Dielectric conductance
Hi SI Folks,
I would like to know the relationship between Loss Tangent and
Dielectric loss. In other words, If I know the "loss tangent" at a
given frequency for a particular dielectric what is the formula to
convert this into the Dielectric conductance(Gd) ?
Thanks,
Peter
--
Peter LaFlamme
Applied Micro Circuits Corp.
Staff System Applications Engineer
200 Minuteman Rd, 3rd Floor
Andover, MA 01810
978-247-8470 phone
978-623-0055 Fax
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