[SI-LIST] Re: Layout service recommendations
- From: Alex McPheeters <amcpheeters@xxxxxxxx>
- To: fred@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, martin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 13:51:07 -0400
Fred:
In all fairness I hope you will acknowledge that just as you have never
seen a complex design without at least one error, you have also never
authored a single design package which you did not alter in some minor way
after it was delivered to the layout provider, either internal or external.
Obviously just as there are good (read everything, understand and follow it
to the letter, as is our goal) designers and bad designers (poor work
habits, inattention to detail etc.) there are engineers who have similar
issues primarily having to do with organization level. highly organized and
prepared = easy to work for and satisfy, disorganized or unprepared =
difficult to work for rarely satisfied.
While we as professionals try not to dwell on the fact that in an
engineering group of 5 engineers, I may always have one who is never
profitable for us, we are more and more sensitive to the engineers general
acumen as we must be in order to remain profitable. Obviously, design is
interactive now or will not be successful on RF and HSD boards, but
interactive from a placement and routing standpoint is different then
delivering a new netlist after placement is approved, a situation we face
every week.
Our clients will tell you again and again that 50 feet or 500 miles, you
get exactly what you pay for in this business, expertise or amateurishness.
"most will tell you whatever to get your business" does not relate much
respect for your only link to the physical, manufacturing and
manufacturability aspects of your designs. I am sorry you have not found a
more professional vendor.
Alex McPheeters
At 12:24 AM 8/1/02 -0700, Fred Townsend wrote:
>You pose some interesting, "Do you want to be hung or shot?" questions. I
>think
>the list has given you some very good advice. I will add few of my own
>comments.
>
>There are some good SI literate service bureaus out there but not many. Most
>will tell you whatever it takes to get your business and then ignore at least
>part of your rules. As others have already stated your chances of success are
>inversely proportional to the distance between the SI engineer and the bureau.
>I have never seen a complex design that did not have at least one error.
>Interpolating, without a SI engineer checking things out the probability of
>first pass success is zero.
>
>Having a SI engineer in attendance or close by may be expensive but it
>allows a
>team approach. I have found the ability to make on the spot tradeoffs
>invaluable.
>
>Fred Townsend
>DC to Light Consultants
>
>Martin Euredjian wrote:
>
> > Being almost ready to go to layout I've been thinking about the issues of
> > sending a design out to a service bureau instead of doing it in-house.
> > Unless you work for a large corporation (I don't) you might not have access
> > to the $100K+ EDA tools and support infrastructure (budget, bodies,
> > equipment, etc.) you might need to produce good designs that work "out of
> > the box".
> >
> > My particular design is a small 5x7 in board that has a 1.5Gb/s front end
> > which gets deserialized and fed into FPGA's etc. Most internal frequencies
> > are in the 100 to 200 MHz range, with wide busses.
> >
> > Is it reasonable to assume that a good layout service can get this
> right the
> > first time? What should one look for? Are there any rules-of-thumb in
> > terms of cost? What guarantees should one demand? What should be the
> > hand-off process? What's the best way to assure success?
> >
> > Much like the list of recommended PCB houses, it might be nice to
> assemble a
> > list of high-speed-capable layout service houses. I'll volunteer to
> compile
> > and post to this list.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > ===============================
> > Martin Euredjian
> > eCinema Systems, Inc.
> > voice: 661-305-9320
> > fax: 661-775-4876
> > martin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > www.ecinemasys.com
> > ===============================
> >
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