[SI-LIST] Fwd: Re: Decoupling Analysis for analog rails
- From: Joel Brown <joel@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: SI-List <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 12:01:37 -0700
You got me interested with the TDK SEAT tool so I have been playing around
with it.
One thing I am wondering is if the RLC model takes into account bias
current and I am thinking it doesn't.
When I create my own model in SEAT it only lets me set the bias current to
zero and this is not very useful for real applications.
If I select a TDK P/N then it does have different bias currents I can
select.
So how does one make a model that includes the effect of bias current, or
are the RLC values essentially different depending on bias current?
I would like use such models in Ltspice.
Thanks - Joel
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Michael PARKER <michael.parker@xxxxxx>wrote:
> Balaji,
> I've had some success with modelling ferrites as Steve suggests, but with
> a further R in series with the parallel RLC to set a baseline ESR.
>
> TDK's SEAT tool (http://www.tdk.com/seat.php) is very useful for
> experimentation with values of RRLC, allowing you to plot Z, R, Y etc. and
> match published data from the component manufacturer.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mike
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Balaji
> > G
> > Sent: 21 March 2013 09:03
> > To: weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx
> > Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Decoupling Analysis for analog rails
> >
> > Steve,
> > Thanks for the suggestion. If I understood you correctly, its like
> > assigning the ferrite with a model & considering analog net as Xnet then
> > analysis should be done. I am using Cadence PDN Analysis for decoupling,
> > let me check whether I can do this.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Balaji
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 1:59 PM, steve weir <weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > That would not give an accurate result.
> > >
> > > Steve.
> > > On 3/21/2013 1:07 AM, Shao, Peng wrote:
> > > > Could not you account this ferrite bead into the VRM model?
> > > > Peng Shao
> > > >
> > > > å¨ 2013-3-21ï¼14:24ï¼"Balaji G" <bala89si@xxxxxxxxx> åéï¼
> > > >
> > > >> Hi all,
> > > >> We have analog and digital rails on our board. In case of Digital
> > > rails,
> > > >> we assign the VRM as source and provide the Lslew, Rflat, L0, R0
> values
> > > to
> > > >> it and we get the PDN frequency response. In case of Analog rails
> where
> > > we
> > > >> have a ferrite between the source and load, VRM will not be present
> if
> > > an
> > > >> Analog net is selected. Should I consider the ferrite as source and
> > > check
> > > >> for decoupling? Is it a correct way of checking decoupling for
> analog
> > > >> rails? I believe most of the tools available doesn't consider the
> > > ferrite
> > > >> bead in decoupling analysis eventhough its assigned with a model. I
> > > will be
> > > >> happy to implement, if there is a suggestion.
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >> Balaji
> > > >>
> > > >>
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> > > --
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--
*Joel Brown**
*
**Chief Electrical Design Engineer
*Z Microsystems, Inc.*
9820 Summers Ridge Rd.
San Diego, CA 92121
Tel: 858-831-7011
Fax: 858-831-7001
joel@xxxxxxxxxx
http://www.zmicro.com
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